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NewsReal Sunday: Using Bible Verses for Jokes or Jihad

November 22, 2009

Are Christians using Bible verses to wish death on President Barack Obama?  Even worse, are Christians using Bible verses to convince people to kill President Obama?  MSNBC host Rachel Maddow and the Huffington Post‘s Frank Schaeffer seem to think so.

After church last Sunday, a conservative church member came up to me.  He told me a friend of his showed him a verse his church has been praying for Barack Obama.  It was Psalm 109:8.

May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership. Psalm 109:8

What was my initial reaction?  My hope was that the people praying it meant they wanted Obama voted out of office and not dead.  My church member assured me the prayer was only for Obama to lose the 2012 election.  He then added that they specifically only pray verse 8 and not verse 9.  Why not verse 9?

May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow. Psalm 109:9

Thankfully my church member didn’t think they should pray that verse for President Obama.  No one should wish death on anyone – especially our President.

Up until recently at least two companies were making merchandise like bumper stickers and t-shirts that say, “Pray for Obama, Psalm 109:8.”  This past week the merchandise fell under the criticism of Maddow and some bloggers.  Since the media gave this issue attention, both companies selling the merchandise have stopped.

Some of the criticism is valid.  Like me, people could get the wrong idea when they first read Psalm 109:8.  The context of the passage is of an evil leader being killed – it is not talking about someone being voted out of office.  I believe proper use of the Bible centers around using verses in their proper context.

Also, the verse is used  by most people as a joke and not for genuine prayer.  Obviously I have no problem with someone praying for Obama to lose the election in 2012.  I pray for that myself.  But I’m not totally comfortable with using a call to prayer with an out of context Bible verse as a joke.

Sadly, some commentators have gone beyond valid criticism and used the story to incite fears that evangelicals or some on the Right are hoping for violence against Obama.  As usual, MSNBC leads the way in that type of an attack.

Maddow: “Can you tell me if this means something less threatening to people hearing this in a biblical context?”

Schaeffer: “No actually it means something more threatening…I find genuinely frightening…There’s a direct parallel with Timothy McVeigh’s t-shirt on the day of the Oklahoma City bombing…There is a crazy fringe to whom these little messages pouring out of Fox News, now on a bumper sticker, talking about doing with Obama, asking God to kill him.  Really this is trawling for assassins.  This is serious business…It goes to show the religious right, the Republican far right have coalesced into a group who truly want American revolution.  And if it turns out to be blood in the streets and death – so be it…This is the American version of the Taliban…This is the Old Testament equivalent for calling for Holy War. “

If one is looking for an example of crazy, leftist alarmism – there you go.  Schaeffer should win some type of Lunacy on the Left Award.

Schaeffer is one of Maddow’s favorite guests, most likely because she can always count on him to make some outlandish statements attacking evangelicals. And Maddow, like most on the Left, actually thinks that Schaeffer is a valid source on evangelicals, simply based on him being the son of a former evangelical leader.

Using Psalm 109:8 probably isn’t a sign of good taste, but it certainly isn’t on par with the Taliban, Jihad, or Timothy McVeigh.  To suggest such a thing proves once again that the Left doesn’t understand what real terrorism looks like.

80 Comments
  1. David Forsmark permalink
    November 22, 2009 4:42 pm

    Good job Paul. If I had to write about Franky Schaeffer one more time, my head was going to explode!

  2. WhiskeyT permalink
    November 22, 2009 5:13 pm

    I regret to inform you that I have heard several people, some friends and even family, advocating that President Obama should be removed “by an means”. The common denominator between every single one of the people I know expressing this sentiment is their religion. As you point out it is one thing for people to pray for his removal from office, it is another to pray for his removal from life. Sadly this is happening and the people doing are indeed Christians.

  3. Cas Balicki permalink
    November 22, 2009 5:17 pm

    My suggestion for a politically correct prayer:

    I believe in Obama
    The president almighty
    Creator of Heaven on earth

    I believe in Joe Biden, His only airhead son
    Who was conceived as a bad idea
    Born of my inexperience
    Suffered under Sarah Palin
    Is best sent only to funerals
    Who has never ascended from the brain dead
    Even after a three day briefing
    He ascended to the Oval Office and is seated at the right hand of Michelle
    He will come again to promote tax giving and the fed.

    I believe in redistribution of wealth
    The government tax grab
    No fiscal restraints
    In Democrat wins
    The government as your buddy
    And political life everlasting.

  4. November 22, 2009 6:18 pm

    Pray for America. Pray for wisdom for our leaders. Pray for a restoration of the Constitution. Pray for the preservation of our freedoms. If Obama or Harry or Nancy or Mitch or Sarah or any other person gets in the way of God’s purpose He will remove them.

    There is nothing easier for God to do than to humble the proud.

    And by the way, you don’t really have to worry too much about your political rival if they are in the process of committing political suicide. Just step aside and offer a word of encouragement.

    • Steve R permalink
      November 23, 2009 1:27 pm

      Remember this stanza from your school days(if you’re old enough)

      Our Fathers’ God, to Thee, Author of liberty,
      of Thee we sing.
      Long may our Land be bright with Freedom’s holy light,
      Protect us by Thy might
      Great God our King.

      I think that was written as a prayer, and it’s as good as any prayer I know.

  5. Richard permalink
    November 22, 2009 7:32 pm

    I just read Psalm 109 in its entirety. It was written by David when he was at a low point in his life. Evil men were out to get him (and no, he wasn’t being paranoid!) and he was petitioning the LORD for these horrible men to meet their ignoble fate. Psalm 109:8 is out of context here and is likely a product of some Christian pranksters. The Left are utterly incapable of laughing at themselves, particularly when it comes to matters of faith.

    Mr. Balicki, you are one funny dude! LOL

  6. November 22, 2009 8:21 pm

    New Testament:
    ……”And DELIVER us from EVIL”

    That is what a real Christian should be praying. Obama is evil, any prayer for any more of his ‘successes’ and we will have PREYed ourselves into our own destruction.

    • Mike Mansfield permalink
      November 22, 2009 8:40 pm

      Yes. It is really funny to NOT be praying that our president would be successful in making the USA an even greater nation, but that he would be eliminated in 2012, because most Evangelicals seem to be so much against him as a person they cannot equate that being a possibility. If they actually believed what they preach then they would NOT want this prayer prayed, even for the less hostile of the possible meanings. (You know the WRONG meaning isn’t the one they are praying.)

      I have seen too much fundamentalist “terrorism” in the last several years from Timothy McVeigh to the guy who murdered the abortion doctor IN CHURCH during , to the guy who killed several people IN CHURCH in Tennessee during worship.

      Rachel is, obviously, trying to stir up folk to bring more viewers. This is exactly what Fox does every day, often even during their “news” programming. Or, maybe, I just happen to watch their news programming when that is happening. (Yeah! Right!)

      The fact that so-called Christians would do this in the context of that scripture shows that SOME (and only some) of them really want Obama killed. More than one Baptist pastor has preached on the desire for Obama to be killed.

      You shouldn’t be trying to justify this kind of evil nonsense, Paul.

      • November 22, 2009 8:45 pm

        Mike; Obama is evil.
        Pray that G-d will deliver us from this evil.

        • revjmike permalink
          November 22, 2009 10:07 pm

          What great evil has Obama done?
          Not opinions here; but known actions that are evil?

          Outside of his tendency to follow in Bush’s footsteps with two wars, one illegal and immoral and the other only immoral, I can’t think of any thing evil that Obama has done.

          So I would really like to hear from you about what evil Obama has done.

          I doubt if you can name one evil he has done.

          • slek permalink
            November 23, 2009 8:14 am

            “What great evil has Obama done?
            Not opinions here; but known actions that are evil?”

            Well Mike; how about bowing before the Saudi King; not once, but twice. To bow before the king of one of the most evil regimes on the planet puts him right up there with Neville Chamberlain.
            In case you have not followed the history of the U.S. Presidents; George Washington turned down an offer to become king because we just fought a war to defeat the idea of there being a “divine right of Kings.”
            Also, it is evil to play the envy game. Whenever this leftist punk makes another economic promise to his constituents; what he is really saying is that he has the right to take the fruits of my labor and transfer it to someone else without my permission. That is called slavery. I believe we have an Amendment to our Constitution that outlaws this.
            But it all make sense, since BO (smell the change) sucks up to Islamo Fascists; who over their sordid history are responsible for much of the slavery practiced during their existence.

          • Steve R permalink
            November 23, 2009 1:36 pm

            Revjmike
            This is, of course, a subjective response. Obama and his ilk are in the process of raping God’s vision of freedom given to us through the Founders. I offer Galatians 1:5. “Stand fast in the liberty with which Christ has made you free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Now, of course, Paul was talking about spiritual freedom, and we’re talking about temporal freedom here. But if we are seeking truth, which I assume you are, we have Calvin’s view that spiritual truth cannot be separated from temporal existence. Obama is evil in the same way that Pilate was — he is a particular manifestation of earthly power that believes it alone defines truth. Christians understand that this is wrong. Pilate didn’t understand truth when it stood before him in chains. Obama doesn’t understand any truth but his own belief in government power. Because that is intrinsically evil, Obama represents evil. And he has already lost.

        • revjmike permalink
          November 22, 2009 10:09 pm

          I’m sorry, theMadJewess, I just looked at your web page; and you are just crazy, so I know you won’t reply with a sane answer.

          Anyone who believes that Obama is the AntiChrist cannot be considered a serious person or wanting actual dialogue.

          • November 23, 2009 6:44 am

            ‘I’m sorry, theMadJewess, I just looked at your web page; and you are just crazy’
            ——————–

            Those who cannt debate, defame.

            Btw, ummm… Rev… lol….Tell me, WHO said that “I” was a “Bush” fan?
            This is the usual speculation that the left uses. Automatically assuming that all of us had some love affair with Bush.
            As I said, anyway, Those who cannt debate, defame.

            • Mike Mansfield permalink
              November 23, 2009 12:08 pm

              I don’t know who said you were a Bush fan. It was not I.

          • gonger permalink
            November 23, 2009 11:36 am

            I agree

        • revjmike permalink
          November 22, 2009 10:11 pm

          “Click It’s official: America bows down to Islam, literally. – Code3’s …” also from your web page, TheMadJewess. You can say that is true, literally; but Bush KISSED him!

        • revjmike permalink
          November 22, 2009 10:14 pm

          I checked your web page some more, TheMadJewess; and you probably DO keep a gun around in case Obama shows up. You certainly are the kind of person who would pray for his death.

          None of that reflects either the Jewish or Christian faiths. It also doesn’t reflect the heart of Islam.

          • November 23, 2009 6:41 am

            ‘None of that reflects either the Jewish or Christian faiths’
            You are a minster of neither.
            From the New Testament, Jesus only cursed a tree for not bearing good fruit.
            From Torah, G-d cursed a whole generation and disallowed them from entering into the promised land.
            Obviously, you are reading another gospel, that is suiting your itching ears, and have fallen prey;

            2 Thessalonians:

            11 And for this cause G-d shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

            12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
            ——
            Islam is not of G-d, any idiot in America should know this.

            • gonger permalink
              November 23, 2009 11:39 am

              Obama is honest-and he is for the American people…take your blinders off.

              Oh my gosh–reading this crap makes me sick to think you are from America!

      • Paul Cooper permalink
        November 23, 2009 8:11 am

        Mike,
        What evil nonsense am I justifying? I don’t justify anything in this blog.

        And there is nothing wrong with praying for Obama to lose the election in 2012. His pro-abortion views alone are reason enough to beg God to give us new leadership.

        Paul

        • November 23, 2009 9:26 am

          ‘His pro-abortion views alone are reason enough to beg God to give us new leadership.’
          —-
          Paul, we should be BEGGING G-d for forgiveness for this. Actually we should be praying that God judges this evil, and roots it out.

          It is really quite funny when evil people that dont give a hoot in hell about God advise people on how to pray, that DO love God….. the conceit and arrogance of the satanic/ left, is always astounding to me.

      • Rogert permalink
        November 23, 2009 8:46 am

        Being a Baptist and one who has seriously studied the Scriptures in CONTEXT and HISTORY and ORIGINAL LANGUAGES for several decades, I would ask you just how many Baptist churches you have been inside of and heard their preachers pray for Obama’s death?

        I, myself, pray for his defeat of office in 2012 and his defeat in policy right now! He has taken it upon himself to declare that this “is not a Christian nation…” and – in short order – followed that up with the declaration that “…we are one of the LARGEST MUSLIM NATIONS in the world…” His every act toward religion has been to speak against Judeo-Christianity.

        (Not to mention that he spouts a steady stream of lies…uh…I mean, mis-speaks, about what is/is not covered/denied in medical care and other areas)

        Should The lord decide that He needs to remove BO by what ever means…so be it. I cannot pray for his death because God’s Word tells us quite plainly…”Vengeance is MINE, says The Lord. I WILL repay!”

        Your implication is that they (Christians) are no better than muslims. However, in each of the acts of violence by self proclaimed Christians there has been immediate repudiation by the mass of Christians…where the same for islamic acts of terrorism is all but non-existent. Yet BO continues to praise islam and push Jews and Christians to the side.

        Truthfully, I would not be surprised that God acted in either of two ways:
        1. Let America pay the price for choosing one who displayed so many danger signals BEFORE the election;
        2. Removing him from office.

        As far as I am concerned, should BO become impotent in office, his political death would be more humiliating than physical death.

        With all that BO is doing to destroy America in favor of islamic patronage, I simply want him to be politically neutralized before he neutralizes the common citizen’s freedom.

    • Riven permalink
      November 22, 2009 9:50 pm

      Exactly at what point did god remove your gifts of reason and intellect? How is he evil, what has happened, what has changed? He wants to end torture, wow evil. He wants to improve our standings with the rest of the world, wow evil. He wants to clean the environment, wow evil. Or was it that he wants women to have the right to chose and he wants to end the reasons that a woman might have an abortion, like the lack of health care, education, jobs, opportunity and encourages birth control? Unlike the Republicans who want to end the right to chooses and end any social program that might make it easier for that woman to keep the child.

      God gave you logic and intellect, use them.

      • November 23, 2009 6:46 am

        ‘Exactly at what point did god remove your gifts of reason and intellect?’

        —–
        Riven, abortion and decapitation of 8 1/2 month old babies is somehow innocent in your book?

        “Woe to those that call good, evil, and evil good.”

        You are calling evil….good. Sad.

        • Rogert permalink
          November 23, 2009 8:52 am

          themadjewess: I have to agree with you. Exactly WHERE in the Bible does it say a mother can kill her unborn child? I see many places where it is condemned to sacrifice children…nowhere do I see where the mother has an overriding right to decide.

      • Gale permalink
        November 23, 2009 4:11 pm

        Psalm 139:13-16
        13)For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb. 14)I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonder-
        fully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right
        well. 15) My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16) THINE EYES DID SEE MY SUBSTANCE, YET BEING UNPERFECT; AND IN THY BOOK
        ALL MY MEMBERS WERE WRITTEN, WHICH IN CONTINUANCE WERE FASHIONED, WHEN AS YET THERE WAS NONE OF THEM.

    • gonger permalink
      November 23, 2009 11:34 am

      Obama is not evil..you are all nuts!

      • Steve R permalink
        November 23, 2009 4:01 pm

        Behold, the pinnacle of “progressive” debate. This is a perfect example of its total vacuity. Laugh, if you must, but not too hard — its unreasoning bile, anger, denial, irrationality must be taken seriously.

      • Carterthewriter permalink
        November 25, 2009 3:48 pm

        Ring your gong somewhere else, fool.

  7. Riven permalink
    November 22, 2009 9:39 pm

    Paul, you have not been listing to the right and not just the fringe. There are plenty of people with slogans that are 1 step away from calling for an outright assassination of Obama. (They will not call for it directly because it’s illegal and if someone does it they can be sued and arrested) Many have used religious slogans and the bible to preach their hate. People have come armed to the meetings of the president, hung him in effigy and compared to Stalin, Col Pot and Hitler… For what, his radical idea of affordable health care and a clean environment or was it his idea of ending don’t ask don’t tell. What has changed besides a black man in the White House? As far as I am concerned Obama has let too many of Bush’s bad ideas continue.
    The right wing pundits have been using the anger and unease that a rescission naturally brings to whip up fervor of “I want my country back.” They have used missed translated bible verse, horrible historical recollection and just outright lies to pass this fear of a socialist or atheist or Nazi takeover of the country. Never mind Bush’s almost daily trouncing of the Constitution and warrantless spying on Americans, Obama wants to destroy my marriage by letting that gay couple down the street marry. They use any far out comparison and use it on anyone. I heard a religious station in Oklahoma talking about the people that helped get gay rights for Germans in the 1920 where the same people that started the Nazi party (Never mind the real history that the Nazis hunted gays down with vengeance) or the people calling Barney Franks a Nazi, not knowing or caring that he is both Jewish and gay.
    The religious right is preaching hate for political purposes and they are just staying a hairs breath away from calling for an outright assassination. It would be nice if the moderates in the Christian community would tell people to stop with the far-out BS and work with him to move this nation in positive direction. Before someone goes too far. Then I will be saying “where were all the evangelical moderates telling the extremist to stop before things got out of hand.”

    • Paul Cooper permalink
      November 23, 2009 8:18 am

      Riven,

      When you create alarmist criticism with no foundation of truth – you sequester real criticism of a topic. I give legitimate criticism in my blog to the use of that verse in the Bible. When someone like Schaeffer goes on a loony rant – then no one hears the real criticism that needs addressed. It also stirs up the one or two crazy McVeigh types out there even more – they feel emboldened, like they actually represent the right or evangelicals – when all they represent is their own insanity.

      I wish people like you, my friend Mike, and people like Schaeffer realized how much you are making things worse.

    • Steve R permalink
      November 23, 2009 4:05 pm

      You mean, like all the expressed wishes that Bush could be eliminated?

      What goes around comes around Riven — can’t say I have a whole lot of empathy for your — LOL — “argument”.

    • Stavros permalink
      November 24, 2009 12:21 am

      “The religious right is preaching hate for political purposes and they are just staying a hairs breath away from calling for an outright assassination.”

      A prayer that the current president be replaced is not calling for assassination. Whereas in fact many leftys did call for the killing of Bush. Remember the U-Tube videos threatening to do it? And the “Snipers Wanted” T-shirts? And the award-winning movie that fantacized about it? Or the commenters at Hufpo that wished Cheney had been killed by terrorists in Afghanistan? Bush was called Hitler and worse by the left but you whine about a Psalm that is used only as a joke. And btw, tell your friend Mike Mansfield he should consider changing that avatar. Is anyone really that goofy looking?

  8. Corrine Lee permalink
    November 23, 2009 4:38 am

    Why are they so afraid, If they do not believe that Christians are right, what have thay to fear, if Christians are so stupid? Could it be that GOD has given power to the Saints and the devil knows it?

    • November 23, 2009 6:37 am

      Could it be that GOD has given power to the Saints and the devil knows it?
      —–
      Thanks, I believe that. The above person a minister? Lol. “What great evil has Obama done?”
      If I really have to answer this, it is obvious why America is going to hell in a hand-basket.

  9. November 23, 2009 7:55 am

    And I thought this was a conservative website. Was I mistaken!

    • Paul Cooper permalink
      November 23, 2009 1:24 pm

      Barbara S – What are you referring to? I’m confused by your comment.

  10. Tom permalink
    November 23, 2009 8:21 am

    Franky’s dad, Francis, is rolling in his grave over his son’s denouncements.

    The evil that Obama has done with the help of our Congressmen is long. They together, on a daily basis, do things that are not in tune with the Constitution; that is evil.

    I personally do not pray death on anyone. There is hope that Jesus will become a reality to them and that they will choose to serve Him rather than other gods.

  11. Michaelle Maloney permalink
    November 23, 2009 8:51 am

    The Bible is about the spirit of Christ. We should pray for our enemies no matter what position they hold. Obama got voted into office-”voted” into office. He didn’t just walk in on his own. If you don’t like what Obama is doing now, then one will have to wait and vote him out- use the system. Murder isn’t justified unless its physical self defense. Those questionable christians need to search their inner self and ask themselves-is this what Jesus would do? Otherwise, they might as well not go to church anymore and waste God and their time because their religion is now in vain and is useless.

    The lefties at MSLSD- take any opportunity to bash their enemies and distort things.

    • November 23, 2009 9:20 am

      ‘We should pray for our enemies no matter what position they hold’

      I will have to, as a Jew, agree with Jesus in this:
      “Deliver us from evil”

      I agree, and amen.

      Michelle, you need to get your head on. In OUR government, WE THE PEOPLE are the leaders, they ought to be praying for US, to make sure they do what OUR laws command, not the vc/versa. They, in fact, are not PRAYing for us, they are PREYing OVER us. Evil. Deliver us from evil, amen.

    • Steve R permalink
      November 23, 2009 4:09 pm

      I agree with you, Michaelle — up to the point where you say “they shouldn’t go to church anymore”. Au contraire, mon amie — those are exactly the ones who need it the most. And I’m talking about churches where the Gospel is preached, not the catechism of Jeremiah Wright or Louis Farakahn.

  12. Ronald permalink
    November 23, 2009 8:53 am

    Psdalm 109….A Psalm of David.
    Author: David
    The theme of this Psalm: Righteous indignation against liars and slanderers.
    We have a God given right to tell God our true feelings and desires. God knows what we are thinking, He knows our motives, He knows what we will say long before we utter a word.
    God has given us a FREE WILL OF CHOICE.
    We must always remember that God’s written Word comes from Holy Scripture and is the divinely in-breathed, infallible, inherent, and authorative word of God. Therefore GOD’S WORD should never be used in the form of a ‘joke,’ or in any form of ‘abusive language.’
    GOD’S WORD should never be used out of context.

    Psalm 109: 6-20: This is another of the imprecatory psalms, a call for God to judge the wicked. David was not taking vengeance into his own hands, but was asking that God be swift in His promised judgement of evil people. David’s words depict the eventual doom of God’s enemies.

    Read Psalm 35:1.. This is one of the imprecatory (cursing) psalms that call upon God to deal with enemies. These Psalms sound extremely harsh, but we must remember: (1) David could not understand why he was forced to flee from men who were unjustly seeking to kill him. He was God’s annointed king over a nation called to annihilate the evil people in the land. (2) David’s call for justice was sincere; it was not a cover for his own personal vengeance. He truly wanted to seek God’s perfect ideal for his nation. (3) David did not say that HE would take revenge, BUT HE GAVE THE MATTER TO GOD.
    Can we or should we apply imprecatory Psalms used as Prayers in our present day situation with the DNC Government and the President established by God ( Romans 13: 1-6 ) Go to God in prayer and ask for his guidance and direction. God Almighty is in control and will always be in control.

  13. Rhodi permalink
    November 23, 2009 9:31 am

    For anyone who actually READ the Bible in it’s entirety, you would realize that while Jesus was a peaceful man, He will come with the sword, wrath and judgement for the wicked the second time. “The Lord is a Warrior, The Lord Almighty is His name.” He “opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble.” So, it really does matters Whose side you’re on. Satan comes to “steal, kill and destroy.” Christians are not to take vengeance upon the wicked themselves, but it is perfectly acceptable to pray for God’s will to be done and pray for the downfall of the wicked. The Lord is the One who is Just and whose perfect Justice will prevail. Because God loves goodness, He must hate wickedness. Christians are to love what God loves and hate what God hates–sin. And this must first be demonstrated toward our own personal lives.

    “The wicked man is doomed by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. He shall die because he will not listen to the truth; he has let himself be led away into incredible folly.” Proverbs 5:2-23

    “For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God), and His ears are attentive to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who practice evil [to oppose them, to frustrate, and defeat them]. 1 Peter 3:12

    As for our leaders, I do believe that Obama is one of the wicked–he simply does things that God Hates–like promoting the killing of the unborn. God does not care about feminist “rights”. He alone gives us our “rights”. Anything we come up with on own is rebellion against Him and destructive to ourselves. A basic description of His law are the Ten Commandments.

    God LOVES children and said that parents that kill their own children do a wicked thing “that has NEVER crossed His mind to do.” And for those of you that scream “torture is wrong for terrorists”, how much more evil is it to disassemble a little baby in it’s mother’s womb? The nervous system [the brain, nerves, etc.] are the FIRST to develop in a baby. The chemicals used on a baby’s abortion and tearing of the baby’s body are EXCRUCIATINGLY PAINFUL–in fact, the most excruciating pain a human can EVER feel because the baby has not had the time to adapt to pain. It is the most horrific thing a person can do to another person! No one can defend this by calling it “good!”

    Obama is deceitful and CONSISTENTLY lies: “Deceit fills hearts that are plotting for evil; joy fills hearts that are planning for good!” Pr. 33:14 Obama hides things from the American people ALL THE TIME. So, no matter what “good” he does, these evil things (and the list could go on) trump his so-called “goodness.”

    Is he alone in this? No, absolutely not. There are many leaders that have done wickedly in the eyes of God; and God will hold each one to account for his or her own evil. So what are we each to do? : “And see to it that your conscience is entirely clear (unimpaired), so that, when you are falsely accused as evildoers, those who threaten you abusively and revile your right behavior in Christ may come to be ashamed [of slandering your good lives]. For it is better to suffer unjustly for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than to suffer justly for doing wrong.” 1 Peter 3:16, 17 AMP

  14. November 23, 2009 9:41 am

    What utter nonsense. The bible nowhere teaches to kill the president. Nor do most Christians teach or follow such things. If there are a few who do, then they are in the wrong. (I also refuse to read any word that Schaeffer says. I have no idea what happened in his life, but wow, what a bitter man. His father is rolling in his grave.)

    But of course attention is going to be given to those few who might espouse and promote such ideas. I haven’t met any, but of course if you find even one, they are going to run with it as though it is the norm!

    But when it comes to Islam, which does teach violence toward unbelievers? Forget it. These same people bend over backwards to defend people like the Ft. Hood jihadist, who OPENLY stated Islam was the motivation for what he did.

    How these people sicken me.

  15. MarkR permalink
    November 23, 2009 9:48 am

    I disagree with President Obama and hope he loses in 2012-ergo: I am Timothy McVeigh. —I hate President Bush- call him Hitler daily/ camp outside his residence in Texas and pray he either dies (actually occurred) or is impeached and ergo: I am exercising my free speech. Or I make a movie (which was made and seen internationally) about President Bush being assissinated and I am once again exercising free speech.– Frankie Schaeffer exegetes Psalm 109:9 and is instantly inside the Christians mind and determines (through what magic? or omniscience?) the state of mind of these individuals. Obviously when one is on the left and disagrees vehemently one is never identified as the unibomber (left winged wacko) but if one is on the right then one is given NO benefit of the doubt and is identified as McVeigh. Finally, recall Sharpton and his inflammation of a situation in Queens NY which led to the deaths of a multitude of people in the early ’90′s- was that a nefarious act of a Christian minister? It has become clear that one’s political affiliation determines one’s presumption of innocence. I suppose Schaeffer is wholeheartedly in favor of the presumption of innocence for Khalid Sheik Mohammed and his 4 buddies. Wish that he could do the same for average church members. The world has lost its mind.

  16. MarkR permalink
    November 23, 2009 10:04 am

    Riven- get a clue- there was a movie(Death of a President) made about assasinating President Bush- think that could be done about Obama? Imagine any President having to be in office and knowing there was a movie circulating about his own assasination. You can impune the motives of every Obama hater you want. Since when has it been illegal to hate? And if it is then a whole lot of Americans are guilty as hell from 2001-2009. I guess the point is when you guys show some evidence of divinity (ie: walking on water, raising the dead and being able to predict the actions based on the thoughts and words of individuals) I will seriously listen to your arguments about all the potential for harm to come to the President. Until then you are meaningless wind.

  17. November 23, 2009 10:39 am

    New blog post: Death Threat In Psalm 109:8? – http://obamaprayers.blogspot.com/2009/11/death-threat-in-psalm-1098.html

  18. coolmom9 permalink
    November 23, 2009 12:12 pm

    Hmmmm, just wondering if the same people having a cow over this supposed “prayer”, threw a fit over the movie depicting the assasination of Pres Bush? Anyone on the Left remember that one? Where was the outrage then?

    Amazing what people tend to forget when their “saviour” is picked on.

  19. Mike Mansfield permalink
    November 23, 2009 12:14 pm

    Paul, how is it I am making things worse?
    I certainly don’t believe all Baptist pastors want Obama to die.
    I was very much anti-Bush, as you know; and I would never have prayed this prayer about him.

    There is nothing evil about Obama, though. You disagree with his decisions. I disagreed with Bush’s decisions. I believe Bush is evil. You believe Obama is evil.

    That isn’t going to change; but I can say with certainty that you are wrong about Obama being evil. Too much of it is based on theological construct that doesn’t make sense to a New Testament Christian.

    • Paul Cooper permalink
      November 23, 2009 1:29 pm

      Mike – where did I say Obama was evil?

  20. Mike Mansfield permalink
    November 23, 2009 12:28 pm

    So how many of us social and religious liberals have been guilty of murder in the name of religion?

    • Carterthewriter permalink
      November 23, 2009 1:03 pm

      Historically, millions.

    • November 23, 2009 3:14 pm

      ‘So how many of us social and religious liberals have been guilty of murder in the name of religion?’

      Mike, Reverend, whatever.. You first came and said that you are a Christian, then you *accuse* Christians. You know…The New Testament talks about the accuser of the brethren…..he is called the devil.

    • Steve R permalink
      November 23, 2009 4:17 pm

      well, one might mention the boat people of Vietnam, the slaughter of millions in Cambodia, the slaughter of at least a million in Rwanda. If you revisit the US domestic politics that either allowed those mass executions to happen, or ignored them once they started, you’ll find some facts that tend to refute your point — assuming you have one.

  21. Melvin C. McDowell permalink
    November 23, 2009 2:26 pm

    Perhaps Psalm 43:1 is a better choice:

    Vindicate me, O God, and defend my cause against an ungodly people, from the deceitful and unjust man deliver me!

    • November 23, 2009 3:11 pm

      ‘Perhaps Psalm 43:1 is a better choice:

      Vindicate me, O God, and defend my cause against an ungodly people, from the deceitful and unjust man deliver me!’

      Amen, thats even better. but really, the hypocrisy is amazing. Letting ungodly, wicked, evil, nasty, hateful people dictate to Jews and Christians on ‘how to pray’

      WHO DIED AND MADE THE LEFT THE GRAND POOBAH?

      • Steve R permalink
        November 23, 2009 4:36 pm

        I like Psalm 144 — Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who maketh my hands to war and my fingers to fight…. now, Riven, Mike, and the rest of you left-hand tilts, ascribe some dire motive to me. Y’all are just dying to do that, I know. Hands and fingers can do much without violence to stand against the soft tyranny of the current regime. Writing, ringing doorbells, pulling voting levers, dialing phones — but, hey, I think youo get the point.

  22. Kevin W Boyd permalink
    November 23, 2009 3:00 pm

    Paul,
    I’ve just recently been reading; really glad of it.

    Call me too smart for my own good, but when I read that Psalm I am reminded of Judas Iscaiot. This was the verse Peter quoted when they needed to fill his position among the 12 Apostles.
    I have an optimistic appreciation that most people buying those things are too.

  23. MarkR permalink
    November 23, 2009 3:24 pm

    “When good men do nothing evil can reign”. My paraphrase of a common old saw. Religious liberals remained very silent during the uptick in Nazism and during the reign of Soviet terror as well as Cuban terror and The killing fields and Chinas cultural revolution and Saddams rape rooms and chambers of terror and death and the killing of millions of unborn children by abortion and many other atrocities. Conservative Christians were slow on the uptick of segregation and voting rights for african americans (though republicans outnumbered democrats in the civil rights struggle as dems were predominant in the south). The fact is all men fall short but when one elevates liberal Christians to sainthood one must by very wary of the ground one treads as history is replete with contradictory evidence. And spare me the old saw about Nazi’s being Christian- they were not. They were nature worshippers and occultists for the most part. Hitler used the church as a tool to spread his brand of hate- just as the official churches in communsit countries deny the fundamentals of Christianity and utilize statist messages garbed in christianeze. The final fact is that 20th century atheism killed more people in history in one century than in all the previous centuries. Socialism-Nazism( a form of socialism-National Socialism)-Communism and all of its atheistic underpinnings have been the greatest abridegement on freedom in all history. While religion has had its atrocities (not based on the Bible) because men are born sinners with a propensity to evil its not even close when compared to man without moral and religious underpinnings.

  24. Akonyte permalink
    November 25, 2009 10:16 am

    Reading all these comments inspires me to become a leftist liberal and start stock piling weapons to defend my liberties from these wacko Christians. I will give up my freedoms right after you blood thirsty Christians remove my gun from my cold dead fingers. Some of us wont stand by idle while you creeps try to force your ways on the rest of us. I am not angry at Christians because of Jesus. I have much respect for Jesus and his teachings of peace, love, happiness, caring, helping, etc. I do not see Jesus in these posters – I see only evil and hate in the name of the Prince of Peace.

    • November 25, 2009 3:34 pm

      ‘I do not see Jesus in these posters – I see only evil and hate in the name of the Prince of Peace.’
      —————
      Another fraud Christian in name only.
      Explain this moonbat., from the Christian Bible, New Testament;

      Matthew 10:34 – “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword”

      Seems as if your version of “Chritianity” is that Jesus is a wimp, and demands his followers to be walked all over.

      As A JEW, I tell Christians to LOOK closely at these passages. Stop listening to the left wing satanists. They have taken your nation and robbed you blind. This person above is a liar and a fraud, and so are ALL of these far left evil pigs.

      • Carterthewriter permalink
        November 25, 2009 3:46 pm

        I must admit, we did try to be nice folks, but these leftist have tried our patience and now we all are rising up to the challenge they put before us. Our constitutions has been peppered with holes, but it remains the central law of this land. So, a re-education is in order, my lady.

        • November 25, 2009 7:05 pm

          I am WITH you in this fight. I want our Christian and godly nation back! There is a time for war, and a time for peace, it is time for war to vote them out or THROW them out that hate our American values.

  25. Reaper permalink
    November 26, 2009 12:39 am

    The guy trys to provide Health Care to those that can’t afford it and he’s called evil?

    I don’t think for a second that there is any politician that could bhe called ‘Good’ but Obama is a long way from evil.

    • November 26, 2009 10:37 am

      Obama is a long way from evil.
      ——————–
      Decapitation of babies is evil and murderous, Obama is FOR that. Obama is the MOST evil non-President ever. Reaper, we are not ‘promised’ health care. We are promised, by our founders; life, liberty, and property.

      If you want this death-care (death in taxes)—- move to England.

      • November 26, 2009 3:01 pm

        Yes you are promised ‘life’ the thing you lose when you’re too poor to afford chemo, antibiotics, and basic health care. Get off your high horse, any president that has supported a war has been pro “Decapitation of babies”.

        PS He’s your president, unless you want to secede from the USA to escape the horror of democratic rule and re-start a monarchy or Islamic style Theocracy. (I think Texas still legally has that option)

        • Rogert permalink
          November 26, 2009 6:30 pm

          I think it’s time you realize that it’s NOT about health care, but heath insurance. No person can be turned away from a hospital for lack of funds. Those who do not have insurance include those who can afford it but decide against it. The ones who cannot afford it are a small percentage but they still get health care.

          The very idea of the government seizing control of the industry is ludicrous! Many doctors work for free when required.

          This whole democrat idea of running health care is the same as their running of any private industry…it’s all about power grabbing. I don’t believe BO or any of his lackeys care anymore about the poor than anybody else. What they do care about is turning America into a socialistic country. Why? So they can run it. If you doubt that, then answer me one simple question,which EVERY member of congress will NOT answer. BO was asked the same question and REFUSED to answer it. So go ahead and give us a straight answer! Are you ready? Here goes…”If this plan is so wonderful, why do BO, his family, congress, their families, EXEMPT themselves from it???? Simple question.

          Any law passed by any public official should require their participation.

          Republicans tried several times to include the president and congress…they wee shot down! Want to guess who shot them down?

        • November 27, 2009 8:20 am

          Reaper, Obama had ONE parent born in HI, the other was not a natural citizen, NOT my president, and when impeachment time comes, and a trial for sedition and treason, I will be sitting there, very content.

          • Reaper permalink
            November 28, 2009 3:53 pm

            Bah… if Bush wasn’t impeached for allowing torture and lying to the public, I doubt Obama will be impeached just cause a vocal minority are xenophobic.

            • Rogert permalink
              November 28, 2009 4:16 pm

              yeah, yeah.., if you don’t like BO you’re racist. Torture is relevant and is only to be used against non-muslims, particularly Americans and Jews. “Bush lied” when he repeated what Clinton and a list of a hundred other politicians said. (of course, the liberals never mention that Iraq had and used WMDs in the not distant past and one of his generals admitted to getting the more recent WMDs to Syria and Iran)
              BO has lied continuously about the health care bill as only one example. “Illegals will not be covered” – they will. It won’t cover abortions. – It will. It did before and they are already discussing how to get the one provision out of there.

              I am so sick of the “phobic” rhetoric which spews out of the mouths of those who want us all to be enslaved by big government. Why would they want that? Pure and simple…GREED. The other guy worked and earned his money; they want to take their part from it. No matter that they didn’t earn it. The best way to get it is through a socialistic government. And guess who is turned in that direction?

              And by the way, check the polls. it’s not a minority which is against his policy. I don’t favor impeachment. It couldn’t happen anyway with him owning both houses of congress.

              Get real and stop the “xenophobic” clap trap blather.

  26. Mike Mansfield permalink
    November 26, 2009 8:38 pm

    First of whoever wrote that the ER had to save your life (essentially). That is false. They have to make you stable. Then they can send you home. Need open heart surgery? Too bad. You’re just going to die. Need medication to keep your heart in rhythm that is expensive and you cannot afford it. Too bad. You’re just going to die.

    As about most things related to health care most Americans not directly involved in the health care debate and/or who have not dealt with the health care industry when it is acting like it acts–denying claims even WITH insurance, most people are just ignorant about this whole process.

    You are afraid of government intrusion; but you don’t realize the corporate healthcare industry already is intruding into your healthcare beyond anything congress would ever do.

    Also, you show me scripture (in the Protestant Bible) that says, “Thou Shalt Not Abort” or similar, I will change my tune.

    Of course, then there’s that pesky constitution you have to deal with; but for those who want a Christian style of Taliban with a particular faith controlling everyone, that is not a problem.

    I promised myself I was just going to quit responding here because of the gross ignorance of a few of you; but I had to speak here.

    You have no compassion, apparently, either except for the unborn. You’re quite content with the 45,000 who die as a direct result of our current health care system.

    • Rogert permalink
      November 27, 2009 7:44 am

      I just love those who call differing opinion “gross ignorance,” especially when they go on to express a good deal of “gross ignorance” themselves.” From the statements I have read of yours, I see a vast ignorance of the Word of God! David wrote of how he was wondrously formed in his mother’s womb…by God. There are other places also where it speaks of the value of life in the womb. John the Baptist leapt in the womb at the voice of the mother of the incarnate Christ. Life was valued from the moment of conception. The Bible never says it wasn’t really a life until later.

      There is a lawyer who was conceived by rape/incest. she spends a great deal of her time speaking to groups about the value of life and countering your type by saying that people like you don’t believe that she has the right to be alive. I have read many of your writings and can tell that you have your own version of the Bible. A more “compassionate” one.

      If you truly believe that “corporate health care already is intruding into your health care beyond anything congress would ever do,” you haven’t been paying attention. Oregon has already displayed the government “passion” by denying treatment to one patient as “too expensive,” but the would pay for assisted suicide. So much for your corporate health care “Just going to die” crap.

      I have a good friend who was afraid a pain in her shoulder was the return of her breast cancer. She went to the county hospital, who admitted her and ran a series of tests including a “cat scan.” They then began other tests to rule out heart problems. Finally, her doctor finished up their work with her own and determined that she has a problem with her arteries and is now working on treatment. ALL AT NO CHARGE TO THE PATIENT. So much for your, “You’re just going to die” crap.

      I notice you ignored my question…no answer, huh?

      Government has RARELY stopped at the original point. They only use it as a base to build upon. I remember when the point of “seizing” private property was to take that which was purchased with ill-gotten gain, such as drug money. Now, it is commonly abused by such things as seizing a vehicle from which the person solicited a prostitute.

      Compassion? Which is more compassionate; letting a person make a critical mistake because they sincerely wanted to, or acting out of love and warning them?

      Constitutionally speaking, the government was never authorized to enter private industry. There are ample questions regarding their authority to get into health care. I have heard it said that the best thing about Canada’s socialized medicine is they don’t forbid them to come to America for care they can’t get in Canada, at least in a timely fashion. And America’s health care is among the best in the world.

      Christian Taliban? Are you dyslexic? No one has advocated anything of the sort. But, since our constitution was built around the Judeo Christian faith (check into it by reading the founding fathers’ own writings) the value of life is not established by the mother. There are uncounted lists of adoptive hopefuls. It is also well documented that having an abortion has had many adverse emotional affects on the mother.

      Planned (non) Parenthood reaps millions from abortions every year. They present few to none alternatives. After all, they make no profit on adoption. But they do take millions from the taxpayer.

      Compassion? Have you ever held an aborted 3 month old fetus in your hand? I have! Guess what…it was a baby! It was a spontaneous abortion, not desired by the mother. Would it have been any less than a baby if the mother wanted to kill it.

      Compassion? How about “partial birth abortion.” the doctor turns the baby around to present a breach birth. This process alone is more traumatic to the mother than she would endure in normal birth, which is usually the reason given for aborting the baby. When it is delivered except for the head, the compassionate doctor takes his scissors and compassionately shoves them into the base of the skull. At this point the baby usually begins to squirm from the pain. Then the compassionate doctor begins to compassionately extract the brain by suction until the baby stops kicking…it’s dead. The compassionate doctor then takes his forceps and compassionately crushes the skull. The now lifeless, worthless tiny body is then place into a tissue receptacle to be compassionately disposed of with other removals like tumors.

      You and your type of “I am so compassionate, I am wonderful” make me cringe.

      From your many contributions (?) to this site, I would assume that you consider yourself to be somewhat of an authority on the Bible. Since 1979 I have studied the Bible, Bible history, Greek, Mores of the times, local idioms, and read through the Bible, Old and New Testaments, twice. When I had a question regarding Biblical morality, etcetera, I went into a comprehensive study. I would think I could more than match your questions. But as the Bible also says, “cast not your pearls before swine,” I will let you continue to believe that the Bible says what you want it to say. I have studied the Bible to find out what it said…without preconditions.

      When we all stand before God, under which position would you like to be there? As one who believed what it said and studied it? Or one who believes what he wanted it to say? Personally, I don’t fear Him saying, “You took me too literally.”

    • November 27, 2009 12:30 pm

      ‘You have no compassion, apparently, either except for the unborn. You’re quite content with the 45,000 who die as a direct result of our current health care system.’

      ……………”Reverend Mike” who wants Communist/Bolshevik/Govt. run healthcare… please, don’t be a hypocrite..* be the 1st to hand over YOUR life savings * for Obamas $1500- a year death-care.

      Put YOUR money where your mouth is, and fork over the* CHANGE *.

  27. Rogert permalink
    November 27, 2009 7:47 am

    One more thing…where in the world did you get the 45,000 killed directly by the current health care system? Should I consider that you got it from the same place as your Bible knowledge?

  28. Mike Mansfield permalink
    November 27, 2009 9:24 pm

    #1. Rogert, the 45,000 came from a study by Johns Hopkins done this year.

    #2. Mad (correct name) Jewess, you need mental health care, so you really need to be in favor of this; and I’m not being mean. I am a retired health care professional and have received training in counseling. Your approach seems to me as though you don’t deal with reality very well. I’m sure you won’t; but I have now made my statement so you can go ahead with your madness if you want.

    The scriptures are not written in stone; and for Christians, the important thing is that Jesus is the Word of God, not the letters put side by side on a papyrus mat or leather scroll. Quote all the scripture you want that has nothing to do directly with abortion; and you still ahve no scripture to conform. Jesus was not the legalist you appear to be and often said, “It is written……….but I say unto you…..” Until you can get beyond the words to the Word, you will never be free and living the Gospel.

    I have compassion for the unborn. After watching 8 years of increasing abortions and unwanted pregnancies caused by “abstinence education.” I voted for a guy who is working to reduce abortions instead. He is also trying to protect women from lots of things that conservatives seem to be against. Then they yell that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” in spite of the fact that he has produced the only birth certificate available for anyone in Hawaii born at the same time period he was born. It is just another attempt to discredit the brown president whom you hated before his election. It no longer matters what he does because you call him a Communist even though there is absolutely ZERO evidence to show that.

    As for “death care,” that is another crazy thing you are saying. There is nothing in any of the legislation to call it that. There is legislation within it so far to prohibit abortion coverage.

    I shall not speak again, especially to the MadJewess, because it is impossible to reason with someone who spouts gibberish like she does.

    So you have now forced another voice of reason from this page….that is at least a voice of reason that doesn’t buy biblical literalism at all. If I believed that I would think that God was just a mentally ill jerk who loved only himself.

    Nite all.

    • Rogert permalink
      November 28, 2009 4:07 am

      Whether you read this or not, it is worthy correction.
      You quote Jesus as saying, “It is written…but i say unto you…” You have taken a few words and failed to finish what He said! He went on to narrow the definition, i.e. “thou shalt not kill, but …if you are angry without cause you are guilty of murder.” How did you miss that part? It hardly bolsters your editing powers.

      (Obama) is tryimg to reduce abortion???? He has never voted for or backed an anti-abortion procedure of ANY kind. He even voted to kill a bill which would resuscitate a baby which survived an abortion. Abortion continues to skyrocket since roe v wade. Even the woman at the center of that decision is now campaigning against abortion…but planned parenthood, nor the liberals will mention that.

      Unwanted pregnancies caused by abstinence education??? Just another liberal inanity. In a world filled with movies – TV – song – books – etc – which extol the virtues of recreational sex and downplay, even demonize, marriage, you are completely remiss in such a condemnation. Personally, I might say I am a retired health care professional, with training in counseling. That can mean anything to nothing. If you re actually a professional counselor, I can understand the sorry state of affairs in mental health.

      “Jesus is the Word of God is correct as far as it goes, but you imply it is fluid and changes with a person’s whim. He is the personification of the Word, true. But you leave out so many things he said that it proves what I said earlier…you are woefully ignorant of the Word of God, declaring that you/mankind have the authority to change Scripture at will. You missed the part where He says the Word (Scripture) will “never change one jot or tittle” Sorry, but that blows your statement of not being “written in stone” straight into hell.

      You are the literalist! Abortion was unheard of at the time, but the life within the womb was still looked at as a life, ergo we now have murder.

      Protecting women from lots of things conservatives seem to be against??? More liberal mantra to legitimize any deviant thought.

      As for God being a literalist, “mentally ill jerk;” you condemn yourself by the implication that you are capable of judging His Word. You have missed that He is Righteous! Meaning? His Word stands! Therefore, you have apparently missed the reason Christ came to earth. He came to pay the blood penalty for our sins as the “Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world.” But not cart blanch. His payment is for those who turn from their sins and accept His payment as for themselves. I perceive that you read only the parts of Scripture that you think you can manipulate to your own belief.

      “Voice of reason?” You have convinced me that you are, indeed, ignorant of God’s Word. If you only read the New Testament you are in error. The Old Testament is full of Biblical wisdom and guidance.

      “8 Years of increasing abortions and unwanted pregnancies?” Where were you the 8 years before when Clinton continued to liberalize abortion? Remember the “legal but rare” fallacy, when it never slowed down its rise?

      I have friends who are educated, not “trained” in counseling. True Doctors. they have no problem with God’s Word, but then…they don’t try to rewrite it. It is sin that is responsible for the rising unwanted pregnancies. Pregnancy, in case you haven’t heard, is caused by NOT abstaining.

      In conclusion, I will say that you ask for specifics, but accept none. You claim to be a Christian, but refuse to believe what Christ said. You make words on the computer about believing but you actually look for loopholes. You ask for specific Scripture on abortions, but refuse to accept the concept that Life, itself, is God’s realm. You want to define what life is worthy to be born and which can be terminated. Very typical liberal. Self righteous to a fault.

      If you actually DO believe in Christ…you ought to read His Book sometime. Only…don’t try to edit it. It will make Him very upset! Revelation tells us that anyone who adds to or takes away from His Word…well…it’s not pleasant. You know? It’s that old “jot and tittle” thing. How you get pass that, well, ????

    • November 28, 2009 12:17 pm

      ‘#2. Mad (correct name) Jewess, you need mental health care, so you really need to be in favor of this; and I’m not being mean. I am a retired health care professional and have received training in counseling. Your approach seems to me as though you don’t deal with reality very well. I’m sure you won’t; but I have now made my statement so you can go ahead with your madness if you want’

      ——- As I stated, those that cannot debate, defame.

      You, a Christian? Ha…………ha………….ha.

      The person that is mental, will stand before God, the judge, and tell HIM “I voted for Barack Hussein Obama” Because he said he would ‘change’ things, so, God, please don’t judge me too harshly for putting in a person that considers babies a punishment.

      You, a Christian? The likliness of that, is for me to win a million dollars when I fill out a survey online.

      You also need to get up with the Alinskyite attacks a little better, you leftist satanists are TOO easy to figure out, after having lived with you devils WAY TOO LONG:

      Rule: 13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and ‘frozen.’…

      “…any target can always say, ‘Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?’ When your ‘freeze the target,’ you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments…. Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the ‘others’ come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target…’

      “One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other.” (pps.127-134)
      ———————
      “Rev” Mike, IF you were REALLY a medical pro. (which you aren’t that as much as you are a Reverend) You would have never said something so stupid on a debate forum. REAL medical pro’s dont resort to such low levels. So—- use another one of Alinsky’s rules the next time you debate to shut someone up. It does NOT work with me.

  29. Rogert permalink
    November 28, 2009 4:13 am

    To correct my statement about Clinton’s idea of abortion being…it was not “legal but rare” it was “safe but rare. Actually, it was neither. It skyrocketed to new heights! And HOW can a procedure be safe when a child dies?

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