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David Horowitz-The Left’s Campaign To Destroy Glenn Beck

September 17, 2009

glenn beck

The Left has launched a massive campaign to destroy Glenn Beck — who right now, and along with Rush, is the most eloquent, fearless and effective warrior standing between Barack Obama and a collectivist state. The politics of personal destruction is what the left does best, and in many ways it is all the left does. “Purge” — as in defame and then dispose of your political enemies — is a term that leftists invented in the 1930s when Joseph Stalin staged show trials of his political enemies, defamed and demonized them, and then buried them. Witch-hunts are a leftist specialty — identify your political enemy, freeze him, and isolate him by painting him as a racist, sexist, homophobe, Islamophobe, nutcase — whatever will work to banish him from the society of decent human beings and silence him. This is what the left is now trying to do to Glenn Beck, with its usual arsenal of malicious distortion, misrepresentation and made up “facts.”

The new cover story in TIME portrays Beck as a Mad Man. (You want to see a Mad Man? Watch Keith Olbermann). A feature in today’s  Salon portrays Beck as a Mormon nut job. How’s that for religious tolerance! (And by the way, the two or three sentences about me are inventions of the writer, as the interview he links shows if you bother to read it.) As for Olbermann, he does a Beck lynching every night (and a Bachmann lynching, and a Coulter lynching, and a Limbaugh lynching. Even Jonah Goldberg has made “Worst Person in the World” four times). What we are witnessing is a political mob; its agenda is the destruction of anyone brazen enough to stand in its path and say “no” to its assault on Americans’ freedom.

But it’s not going to work. Thanks to the genius of the Internet, anyone who is not a rabid believer in leftwing lunacies can find out what is actually inciting them by viewing the man himself on You Tube. When the curious punch up his videos they’re not going get Jeremiah Wright.  They’re going to get the real Glenn Beck and see that the slander is just that.They’ll also see why he’s being slandered.

But doesn’t he mis-speak every now and then? Doesn’t he go over the top? Like everyone else who performs — and in his case performs without a script and for four hours every day — he does. But just compare five minutes of any Glenn Beck monologue with Olbermann’s rants, or the sappy sarcasms of Rachel Maddow, or the bloviatings of  “progressive” TV pundits across the board, and relish a model of sanity and sobriety and insight into the political night that is descending on this country unless enough people stand up and say NO.

For me, the most sickening aspect of the anti-Beck campaign is the eagerness of some conservatives to join in. The Time Magazine story was written by David Von Drehle, whose rhyming drivel was once a regular feature of National Review (the only serious poor judgment of which Bill Buckley was ever guilty). The eagerness of some conservatives like David Frum to throw Glenn Beck under the bus reminds me of Trotsky’s observation about pacificists as people who don’t want to get their moral principles wet. Although with conservatives it’s more like they don’t want to get their Armani suits wet. They don’t want anyone associated with them to appear to be street fighters when we’re in the middle of a street fight. It’s the snob effect.Or more likely it’s a conservative Stockholm Syndrome. Held hostage by a leftwing media, some conservatives think that by dissociating themselves from Rush Limbaugh under attack, or Sarah Palin, or Joe Wilson or innumerable others, they can get their enemies to like them. The spectacle is pathetic and disgusting and the hope fatuous.

It’s actually not just a street fight. We are in the midst of a political war in which one side is seeking to eliminate the other This is a war begun by the left, and in fact waged only by the left until Obama‘s recently launched attempt to steamroll the nation into the socialist future. Seven years ago, the left set out to destroy George Bush and did — because he didn’t fight back. How dare those Democrats who called Bush a liar and a murderer talk about decorum and profess shock that a Republican should call out Obama on his lies about health care?  Their lies about Bush got Americans and Iraqis killed. Wilson’s truth not only hurt no one, it resulted in a positive change in the policy.

Until now only one side has been shooting in this war. But from the day Rush Limbaugh declared that he hoped Obama would fail in his efforts to wreck America, there has been another army in the field — a small one until 9/12, but a brave one. Some day the Democrats may want a truce in this war, and Republicans, being civilized and wishing the best for this country, will give it to them. But until then, we would all do well to circle the wagons and when fired on, fire back.

  1. Mary Geary permalink
    September 18, 2009 1:38 am


    THANK YOU!!!!!!!

  2. Steve R permalink
    September 18, 2009 1:58 am

    I’m with Rush, and Glenn. If Obama fails, America — that is, the America of the Founders’ vision of a free Constitutional republic where government is the servant of the people — may survive. No guarantees. But if Obama and his sick-o-phants have their druthers, that “patriots’ dream that sees beyond the years” is gone, replaced by a socialist nightmare of lost freedom and control by government “elites”. We’re onto the collectivist left, now. Their charges of racism, fascism, naziism are hollow, stupid, empty — the last refuge of scoundrels.

  3. September 18, 2009 2:19 am

    One very big shot back should be more articles on comrade Val.Jarrett, just a quick look at her past shows it is filled with friends that are a who’s who of radical left, socialist, marxist and communists all having a wonderfull time with the elite in Chicago.
    If this is the Obummers mentor, if she is what has been decribed as “the other part of his brain” If she holidays with them and ALL important decisions are run past her first, does not this qualify her for some public scrutiny????

    • September 18, 2009 4:35 am

      Doing our part posting on Czarina Jarrett!

      Absolutely right for the longest time only one side has been firing. The Republican party elite, for the most part, has been behaving like deer in the headlights for about a year now. Finally Steele fires back on the “racism” stuff, and Lindsey Graham appears to have grown (or retrieved?) a backbone. Every day some absolutely preposterous, and ultimately disastrous move in domestic or foreign policy is made – sometimes both! Just because you’re getting fired on with a sub-machine gun doesn’t mean you lay down your rifle. Snipers can pick out the individuals in a nest.

  4. Jonathan permalink
    September 18, 2009 2:36 am

    My question is: When are we going to start doing the same thing to the leftist media in a big way?

    Dig into the corporate control that is exerted over the Traitor Media. Expose them like you did ACORN Glenn. We should be hearing about General Electric and Iran every single night, or whatever scandal they are involved in. Destroy Olbermann. I bet this guy has more connections to evil than Darth Vader and ACORN combined. Drag out the mud baby.

    Speaking of tea parties, how about the idea of organizing tea parties to pressure Congress into holding hearings about the leftist domination of our educational system?

    In my humble opinion, the renaissance of America has to start in the school system. Our children are being held hostage by this liberal mega cult. They are being victimized by social engineering and psychological manipulations that rival what the Nazis did to Germany’s school system. Education majors are being trained (without realizing it) to be cultural change agents and brainwashers, instead of teachers in the classical sense. The young teachers themselves do not realize the way they are being misused to hobble students with lower expectations and decreased motivation. As Thomas Sowell once quipped, the KKK couldn’t do a better job than the educrats of designing a school system to keep black people down.

    Two excellent documentaries have been airing on television lately. I recommend you watch “Indoctrinate U” and “Textbooks, Inc.” If you are clueless about this issue, you will shocked and quite irritated about the blatant use of your tax dollars to destroy your country. Read “Reclaiming a Nation at Risk” by Brandon House.

  5. Joseph White permalink
    September 18, 2009 4:47 am

    It doesn’t surprise me that the liberal left is performing these tricks. I’ve seen it for the last 30 years. Everytime the left is faced with something they don’t understand, they destroy it. They went after Reagon, both Bushes, the congress during Clinton Impeachment, and now the normal American who wants less government.

    Their tactic is old, but tried and true. If it didn’t work so well, they’d drop it and try something else.

  6. stmichrick permalink
    September 18, 2009 5:07 am

    Glenn Beck isn’t my style. Sean Hannity isn’t my style. Rush, Ann and David are my style. I like the fact that conservatism and traditionalism are not monolithic.

    Political movements need, shall we say, different strata in order to find momentum and success. I’m glad all these folks are around to throw roadblocks on the socialist road before it’s too late.

    A pox on the houses of those so-called conservatives who feel the need to gain the approval of elite leftists in the media.

  7. Nuke09 permalink
    September 18, 2009 5:26 am

    Another tactic that the Left is going to do is to try and foment internal rivalry. Already there are those in the Leftist media who are saying Glen Beck has replaced Rush. First this is pure nonsense – Rush will continue to rule the airwaves for the foreseeable future. Glen’s format (message) and delivery are quite different. The way I look at both Rush and Glen is that they are conservative tools within the tool box to combat the Leftists within the US. We are best served by hanging together than hanging apart. Cheers.

    • Fritz Becker permalink
      September 18, 2009 10:18 pm

      I would throw Mark Levin, David Horrowitz, and Shaun Hannity in there too, along with the folks behind the Tea Parties, and dozens of others. We need to vanquish the statists stateside, then run them out of Canada, Britain, and Latin America. It is indeed a war, a war we must all fight and win against tyranny.

  8. fiftyfifty permalink
    September 18, 2009 5:35 am

    What conspiracy there is no conspiracy did the racist of America tell this Congress and this President to start passing bills without reading them.making fools of themselves by still blaming Bush for there failures,This Congress has spent more time covering up each others crookedness. One guy calls the President lier during a live speech and because he from a southern state its racist.
    But here’s the good part the MSM and Washington are going to teach us regular American racist some social behavior along with some Washington etiquette.ITS OKAY FOR WASHINGTON TO INSULT THE PEOPLE WHO PAY THEM BUT DON’T YOU DARE INSULT WASHINGTON.

    • Jo Naylor permalink
      September 20, 2009 10:10 pm

      Glen Beck & Rush Limbaugh, thank God for men of integrity, and not afraid to tell the truth,
      America & Canada open your eyes to the truty Obama is bad for America, he is a wolf in sheepskin
      clothing, and even the devil disguses himself as an angel of light that phoney smile that has many
      evil plans for take over of America and socialist & communists in his list of advisers, are you all
      asleep? Wake-up before your Liberty, freedom that many fought and died for is suttly taken from
      us, this President is not making America proud, he’s dragging us down to the bottom of the pit of
      Hell and if we do not stand up and get him out of the White House now and take our countries
      back now, impeach Him for all the war-mongering that he has started around the world, there will
      be not peace with Obama, we don’t even know who he is, only what he wants us to know, and the
      rest is hidden his darkside. I believe that All of America and the world stands of the brink of
      distruction especially because of Obama’s ignorance concerning Israel, God says the Holy City of
      Jerusalem is His and all the lands He had given to Abraham, Isaac & Israel, Obama you are fighting
      against the living God of Israel, and you cannot win only the Prince of Shalom, Jesus Christ will bring
      lasting PEACE to the middle east, not man and his puny treaties, you sir are fighting against the
      God of Israel, and you or anyone else will not win, if you want to live accept the Word of God, Jesus
      Christ and follow His instructions for lasting PEACE! Otherwise you and all your cronies that think
      they are so rich and run this world will find out that you are nothing when Jesus comes to judge you
      for you evil works… not take this likely the time is close at hand with all you crazies running the
      assilum. Woe, to you who call evil good, and good evil, you are so busy devising evil that you would
      not know God’s truth and His plan for His People. Forget the 1,000 pages of hidden & suttleties, the
      hidden agenda to do away with all those you evil ones consider like Hitler that are not fit to live, like
      the children in the womb, and the elderly have so much wisdom to teach the younger generations,
      God is the one who gives and takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord! You will not win, God
      will intervene, and you will find the lake of fire reserved for those who are pawns in the hands of
      satan, the mastermind of this world who is using you right now as a pawn in his hands to do his dirty
      distruction of families, and kill off all those whom the Clilnton’s & Al Gores think that they should save
      the earth for themselves, ha! ha! you with no morals or integrity God will deal with you, you cannot
      save the earth, it is groaning right now waiting God to redeem it, as it too is cursed by the fall of man-
      kind, we are to be good stewarts of His Creation, but it is dying because of the fall of mankind, this
      New Age retoric is a joke you cannot save the planet, need a job Gore, get a real one you and Clinton
      a total embarrasment to the Office of the President of the United States of America why do we keep
      seeing him and his mixed up thinking & plotting, I for one do not want to see him in Canada anymore
      he is detestible, and pedifiles who pray on youny people never change and have no integrity to speak
      to any of us, but his arrogance has no remorse or repentance, and he will give an account unto
      almighty God for his sins open & hidden as all of us will. But that smurking face makes me want to
      tell him to go and hide as he is also doing things behind our backs, no wonder they send a communist
      to speak to a communist, it’s so sick This Democratic Congress in Washington, D.C. is degrading the
      US of America, and the boys in the war are dying for nothing with leadership like this in Washington.
      Come on America and open your eyes & spiritual ears and lets get rid of this evil regime before it
      lulls us into a complacent sleep, in order for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing, so get
      busy and look beyond all the lies you being told, and let’s take the land of the free and the home of
      the brave back, and be proud to be an America founded on the judeo christian ethics & morality
      of the Word of God, the Good Book or else we wil go down with the ship very soon, this kind of
      sickness that is enveloping the world cannot go on unless, “My people who are called by my name
      will humble themselves, and pray and turn from their wicked way, and seek my face, them I will
      hear from Heaven & heal their land, last chance stand up and be counted for the soon coming
      Kingdom of God.

      All you auto workers in Michigan that shouted for Obama and that you thought that he was going
      to save your expensive paychecks, see what you got, it is God who give us the ability to earn a living
      and you should have put your trust in Him who is able to to exceedingly, abundantly, more than you
      could ask, according to the spirit that works within you, but in your greed and pride thinking only of
      your self you are all unemployeed, trust God and pray to Him, you voted for a man who lied to you
      face it, he hasn’t and will not save you your expensive jobs, so it’s time to seek what is lasting and
      eternal and forget about greedy filthy luker, come back down to reality and live modestly and love
      your wives and kids, and do things with them that don’t take alot of money, change your priorities.
      Love your families and spend time with them, this means more than bigger everything. get back to
      the love of children instead of looking at them as an inconvenience to be done away with, then
      healing and wholeness will return to America & Canada as we put our trust in the living God!
      This a time where God has allowed evil to enter America, because this is what the people deserve
      so he has allowed a darkness to take over and it could destroy America as we have known it as
      being the most blessed nation on the earth, but not for long, as we see the forces of darkness taking
      over in every area of our lives…..we better get on our kness and pray to the only true God, the Lord
      Jesus Christ to heal this land and repent, ask for forgiveness for our selfish ways, and the murder
      of 50,000,000 of our little ones who never got a chance to see the light of day or hear their parents
      voice, God gives life & He is the only one who takes it away, not Doctors that have taken a hippor-
      cricital oath to preserve life at all costs, now isn’t that a downright lie. And they would like to see
      55 years and older done away with all in the name of greed too, they won’t have to pay medical,
      Old Age Pension, CCP and retirement funds, so if they do away with millions on the system then
      all the more for their greedy selfserving plans, wake-up peoples


      • Swemson permalink
        September 20, 2009 11:08 pm

        Huh ?

        Come again….

      • Swemson permalink
        September 20, 2009 11:09 pm

        Talk about gibberish folks… WOW….

        I rest my case !

  9. Volodymyr permalink
    September 18, 2009 6:03 am

    David Horowitz is spot on about the left’s tradition of destroying their opponents. Stalin’s show trials were always preceeded by beatings, torture and forced confessions. America’s Left generally supported Stalin’s purges. Become familiar with Stalin’s henchmen – Lev Aronovych Shvartsman, Lavrentii Beria, Henrikh Yagoda, Nikolai Yezhov. READ Ion Mihai Pacepa’s “PROPOGANDA REDUX” for insight on the Left’s eight year attack on George Bush. Pacepa was tapped by the Soviets to lead the disinformation campaign against the Vietnam war.

  10. jac mills permalink
    September 18, 2009 6:05 am


    Rupert Murdoch should switch OReilly and Beck time slots. Beck would beat EVERYONE IN RATINGS. Beck is doing an invaluable service for this country and ought to be commended. Were it not for Beck and Sean Hannity, there would be no sanity on television news. Beck, as you know, has renamed the “ELITE” media the “FRINGE” media. So appropriate. All of us should use that now. Start the push for that, David.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 18, 2009 12:00 pm

      Interesting idea.. but I doubt if they’ll try to mess with O’Reilly, he’s their biggest draw…

      It might be better however, to push Shepard Smith’s “SOFT NEWS HOUR” down to to 5PM, with Bret Baier at 6PM (Baier’s all star panel with Charles Krauthammer, may be the best no-spin political commentary on TV), Beck at 8PM and Hannity at 9PM

      O’Reilly and Hannity are too much alike.. they both spin everything they can according to the demands of their true masters, the catholic church & I think slipping Beck in between them makes good sense… Besides, Beck has already eclipsed Hannity in the ratings anyhow……

      • September 19, 2009 6:25 am

        “they both spin everything they can according to the demands of their true masters, the catholic church”

        OK, that’s ridiculously hyperbolic and just a wee bit bigoted toward Catholics.

        • Swemson permalink
          September 19, 2009 12:38 pm


          Say what you will, but the facts speak for themselves. O’Reilly and Hannity are constantly harping on religious stuff and doing so with a distinctly catholic perspective..

          About a year or two ago, 2 gays in costumes went into a catholic church in San Francisco & “drank the wine & chewed the wafer” and by so doing, according to O’Reilly, they “desecrated the sacrament”. I’m willing to bet that since then, he has showed that image and repeated the phrase “desecrated the sacrament” at least 50 times. I get nauseous every time I hear that…

          Am I bigoted towards Catholics ?

          Well since I despise all forms of religion, I guess you might say so… And I’ll go one step further & say that other than for Islam, which to me isn’t so much a religion as a mental disease, yes… the catholics are indeed more offensive to me than almost all of the others, because their hypocrisy is simply so staggering. They tell people that they were born with original sin, therefore all men are sinners, and that the only way they can get to heaven is by being absolved of their sins by one of their franchisees… Oh, and don’t forget to drop your cash in the plate on your way out.

          Teaching young people to believe that god is the answer for everything, stunts their ability to learn to use their own minds.. As Ayn Rand said, “faith is the opposite of reason”, and they deny the very essence of who we are by the way they look down at the vast majority of human sexual behavior.. They make their flock feel dirty and evil about the most basic, natural and joyful things that any human being can do… They also divide us, which creates enormous fear and hatred amongst all of mankind’s different religious groups… Look at history and tell me if that’s not true.

          I think their (all religion’s) influence on mankind has been the single biggest detriment to peace, freedom and prosperity than any other factor in man’s history. More murder, madness and mayhem has been committed in the name of god, than by any other single idea…

          As far as I’m concerned, the lowest street hooker performs a more honest and legitimate service than any religious leader ever.

          The most interesting thing about it to me however, is that virtually all of the values of moral and ethical behavior, that most religions teach are identical to mine… which tells me that we don’t need a church to tell us how to live a happy, peaceful and productive life…

          All you need is a little logic and reason, and you’ll inevitably come to all of the same conclusions. (Except for those nasty rules about sex of course)

          • September 19, 2009 12:51 pm

            If someone is a violent pimp — brutal to those “lowest street hookers” you speak of — and goes to jail wouldn’t you be in favor of them finding religion in prison? Isn’t it better for them to come out as a Christian than go out again as a pimp?

            I tend to support people who embrace and promote a literalist, basic religious faith. (Which doesn’t mean I won’t nudge them to get beyond it.) Why is that? Because such a spirituality is a step up from the amoral non-spirituality of me-first criminality and self-destruction. One must first embrace the second stage of spiritual growth (the kind of religion you despise so much) before one can transcend to the third stage of spiritual growth where you’re at (science/reason/embrace of the individual) before one can ultimately achieve the fourth stage of spiritual growth — a mystical/communal understanding of the universe.

            I’ve linked to this description many times, not sure if you’ve seen it yet:

            • Swemson permalink
              September 19, 2009 1:45 pm


              I’m sure you’ve heard me say that I’d love to live in a community where all of my neighbors behaved according to “christian” precepts in my previous comments, but at some point we have to build a sound foundation for a politico-economic philosophy in order for it to survive…

              William F. Buckley, in “God and Man at Yale” defended capitalism on the grounds that all other economic systems were wrong because they were NOT christian… and look what’s happened to capitalism in this society… Many other commentators in these blogs also favor capitalism because in their minds, it’s “gods will”

              Personally, I don’t think a “violent pimp who’s brutal to street hookers” even deserves to live. There’s certain types of criminal behavior that people can almost never be cured of.. and this is a good example of that…. If he really made a 180 degree turn around due by “getting religion” in prison that’s fine, but at what cost ? If 95% or more of such criminals just sit in jail at our expense, and then get released to go back into society and commit more crimes, then I say the cost to society of dealing with people like that after they’re first caught, isn’t worth it just to get a few reformed pimps back in circulation… How do we develop a better way to deter people from committing such horrible crimes, I’m not sure… but if we remember to keep the rights of the victims ahead of any rights that the perps may have had, I’m sure we’ll come up with a way… Again, liberal ideals get in the way of a sane social system.

              But let’s look at those people “who embrace and promote a literalist, basic religious faith”…

              IMHO, while they certainly don’t hurt the rest of society, they sure as heck don’t contribute much to the advancement of human civilization either… Circumstances were slightly different in previous generations, when the church played a dramatically bigger role in human society. Almost all of Bach’s compositions were written at the behest of the church, which paid him to write them… OK.. That was one good thing that came out of the church.. true, but how valuable a contribution was it when you consider the cost of the inquisition and other horrors committed by the church.

              In the last hundred years or so, mankind has seen an explosion of knowledge, science and technology, which has taken us from horse drawn carriages, to the exploration of outer space. Were many of the men involved in those pursuits and advancements religious ? Probably.. but virtually none of their achievements came as a direct result of their religious views.

              You may see a continuous thread of Ayn Rand’s “Objectivism” in my ideas, but almost all of the great advances and accomplishments of man, came about as a result of rational selfishness. The doctor who discovers a cure for a disease, didn’t do it because god wanted him to, he did it because there was a burning question that was facing him in his chosen field of endeavor, and the driving curiosity of his intellect demanded that he use his rational mind to solve that puzzle…. Think about all of the things that have been discovered in the last hundred years or so, and tell me what % of those were made possible by faith, and what % of those were made possible by rational thought.

              If a society of people that’s dominated by a fundamentalist (but peaceful) religious faith is what you want, that’s fine… but be prepared to live in stagnant society of happy children whose fairy tales are more important to them than the possible greatness that their rational minds were capable of… if only they spent their time thinking… rather than praying.

              As for me, I’ll be the first to volunteer for the first trip to other world’s on a quest for knowledge and discovery, rather than stagnate in your perfectly innocent and happy little valley every time.

            • September 19, 2009 2:07 pm

              You didn’t address my argument about the 4 stages of spiritual growth. Did you read the link I provided?

              In biological evolution one doesn’t go from amoeba to elephant in one leap. There are stages in between which a species must pass through. Spiritual evolution is no different.

          • Swemson permalink
            September 19, 2009 2:50 pm


            I didn’t address it because I disagree with your basic premise:
            “Because such a spirituality is a step up from the amoral non-spirituality of me-first criminality and self-destruction”.
            I’ve said a couple of times that what you refer to as moral behavior doesn’t need to spring from a spiritual or religious source. It’s also the proper way to behave because it’s irrational to behave in any other manner.

            Criminality is criminality. People who live that way are simply saying that they don’t recognize other people’s rights to their life or property. That’s just plain ignorant. If everyone lived by that philosophy, we’d all be living in chaos. Therefore by behaving that way, a rational observer comes to the inevitable conclusion, that by doing so, they forfeit any right they may have had to the protections associated with the way we live. That’s why we’re morally justified to punish such people… We’re simply treating them by the rules that they choose to live by.. what’s good for the goose…etc….
            “One must first embrace the second stage of spiritual growth (the kind of religion you despise so much) before one can transcend to the third stage of spiritual growth where you’re at (science/reason/embrace of the individual) before one can ultimately achieve the fourth stage of spiritual growth — a mystical/communal understanding of the universe.
            David… are you serious ?

            You really think that that man must achieve a specific level of spirituality before he can be rationally and scientifically creative ? Well there’s one heck of a big crowd of scientists, the vast majority of them who are coldly rational and logical, and who don’t believe in any supernatural being BTW, who prove that concept to be untrue.

            And do you really want the scientists who are, at this very moment bringing us into a new and exciting world where almost anything is possible, navigating their way through the process of discovery according to a “mystical/communal understanding of the universe” ?

            I think NOT.

            There is NOTHING communal about the achievements of the human mind. Great ideas come from one mind, not from a committee.

            You’re scaring the crap out of me here… and you’re also beginning to sound a lot like a really cute 1970’s flower child, who I once had an enormous crush on… 🙂

  11. Beverly Partain permalink
    September 18, 2009 6:05 am

    My comment is very simple: Daily my husband and I meet people who have been turned on to Glenn Beck and never miss his program on FOX. He is reaching more and more every day and why? PEOPLE BELIEVE HIM!!!!! He is honest about his shortcomings and failures in life and his determination to be a person of integrity. He seems to be “fearless”, yet one must know he faces innumerable threats… He loves his country and the Constitution….a true man of character and SO entertaining. My husband is a pharmacist in California. I flew with my sister to Washington D.C. for the Sept. 12 march. My husband had to stay behind to work, but spread the word about where I’d gone. EVERY person he talked to said they were SO envious…that they would have been there is they could have gone. One gal said she had to hurry home because Glenn Beck was coming on soon and she never missed him…..he was her HERO!! There is a vast multitude out here who love and respect Glenn….I, who used to be so apolitical have become a Glenn freak….plan my day around his program in the afternoon…..he inspires, informs and makes me proud to be an American!!

    • Mae permalink
      September 19, 2009 3:49 am

      I’ve become a sick, twisted freak, too, and my day is planned around the five o’clock hour when Glenn appears on Fox…from nine to twelve, thanks to the internet, I can listen to his radio program on the Big Talker out of Philadelphia…I watched his two hour 9/12 program with tears in my eyes and was so proud to have family there marching…God bless Glenn Beck and keep him safe!…

  12. Bob permalink
    September 18, 2009 6:06 am

    I’ve been listening to Beck for years and he is the real deal. He’s emotional, over the top and honest as the day is long. He will continue to gather importance and perhaps will eclipse the other two top radio programs in audience. There is something about truthsaying, whether it comes from Frontpage Magazine, or elsewhere that leaps off the page or airwave and rings a bell. The left is being exposed for its corruption, malfeasance and dishonesty. People who have never been politically exposed don’t like being called ugly names. Consider that people who were never politically involved helped put Obama in office, and similarly affected persons are causing him and his party big headaches.

  13. People's Commissar Tirebiter permalink
    September 18, 2009 6:16 am

    Especially dismal has been the transformation of Little Green Footballs around the Tea Party/Town Hall movements; once-wonderful counter-caliphate web site, which got great pieces from sources like MEMRI out in broader view, and exposed fauxtography during the Hezbollah War, cannot even note the Van Jones purge because the story was broken by Beck. Also it can’t link to NewsReal, because it considers Robert Spencer anathema. The populist right has long had a fondness for pulp tracts and a curiosity for conspiracy theory, and the elitist right looks askance from the country club. But LGFseems to characterize the whole gamut of conservative sentiment as a saber-rattling anti-vax KKK Nazi Intelligent Design militia ruled by a triumverate of Rush, Beck, and Pat Buchanan.

  14. swathdiver permalink
    September 18, 2009 6:22 am

    Well said Mr. Horowitz. I must say this forum has some smart folks on board compared to the others across the internet!

    The left’s attacks aren’t an accident or the result of simple policy differences. Statists have been with us since our Founding. In 1919 though things changed dramatically when Lenin sent his agents here to destroy America from within. Stalin and each of his successors continued the plan. Now you have 2 to 4 generations of red diaper babies like Comrade Presidente Obama who still toe the Soviet line even though the Soviets are gone, well, sort of!

    Subversion of EVERY industry and society has occured in America and we did little to stop it. Whittaker Chambers was one of the first to blow the whistle to alert America and little or nothing happened to rid our society of these creeps for 10 years while Democrats were in charge. Then Senator Joe McCarthy came along and blew the door wide open with the help of Hoover, ushering in a Republican Presidency who was immediately hostile to him probably because he could not believe some of his best friends were doing Stalin’s bidding, George C. Marshall.
    Then we have the anti-communist preachers, the Rush Limbaughs of the 50s and 60s who kept sounding the alarm, only to be silenced by LBJ and later the Fairness Doctrine.
    Politically the American communists lost at the polls but succeed in foreign policy and by invading our instutions to begin their dirty work. They should have rotted in jail!
    Ronaldus Magnus entered the White House at a very dark time, revitalized America, kept the American Commies at bay and destroyed the Soviet Union. However, his Republican successors and that fool Perot didn’t recognize the threat at home and the destruction kept on. Now we have a red diaper baby in the White House, a full blown Communist. If the CPUSA still handed out ID cards, Obama would have one in his wallet.

    We have 2 election cycles to peacably save America, that’s it folks!

  15. Evangeline permalink
    September 18, 2009 7:01 am

    How communist is public education?

    By Charles A. Morse
    web posted March 25, 2002

    On December 5, 1928, The New Republic published an article written by self described socialist John Dewey, the revered father of so-called progressive education, in which revealed the true nature of the leftist education agenda. In the article, Dewey spoke of “the marvelous development of progressive educational ideas and practices under the fostering care of the Bolshevist government.” This tells us everything we need to know concerning Dewey’s admiration for the Soviet system and its “ideas and practices.”

    He fawningly described the development of a “required collective and cooperative mentality” which was, of course, the exact opposite of the American ideal of the development of self-sufficient creative and competent individuals. Dewey considered “the great task of the school” to be “to counteract and transform those domestic and neighborhood tendencies” which he specifically and accurately identified as “the influence of home and Church.” In order for Dewey’s “progressive” agenda to advance, the moral authority of “home and Church” would have to be undermined and replaced with the authority of the state. The state run school would be the chief agent and catalyst in the development of this “collective and cooperative mentality.”

    If you don’t know who John Dewey was, please google search. I do not believe we have graduated students from our public schools, or our colleges, who truly understand our form of government for at least two generations. And it was by design! If we do not reclaim our history, we will not survive. Pride in the USA has been out of fashion for decades.

    • Jonathan permalink
      September 19, 2009 12:31 am

      Hi Evangeline,

      Speaking of John Dewey, do some research on his connections to John D. Rockefeller. Do some research on the Rockefeller Foundation.

      Tychoon John D. Rockefeller was a utopian socialist who advocated a global governance of elites over “common folk” whose lives were regimented and controlled completely. He was a capitalist who used capitalism to undermine our Constitution. He despised, as all utopians despise, the idea of representative government. He set up the foundation to help achieve his aims of global corparatism. He was instrumental in subverting American education to utopian collectivism through his various foundations.

      The Rockefeller Foundation today is only one of hundreds and hundreds of global NGOs who are working to institute a one world government based upon corporate facist economy and a synthesized cultural model of environmental spiritualism.

      Earlier generations were very much aware and alarmed about communism. They actively worked against it in many ways. Research Senator Carroll Reese of Tennesseee. Research his congressional hearings on the subversion of America’s education system. Educational subversion has been going on since the days of Woodrow Wilson. Wilson was the original radical collectivist in the White House. Barak Obama is his most obvious clone.

      Despite what the leftists claim, the greatest leftists in this country are the capitalist giants who generate wealth with our system and then seek to install elitists ideals for to overthrow it . Look at George Soros today. John D. Rockefeller: Capitalism for the elite; socialism for the masses. The Carnegie Foundation, and myriad other corporate led groups use their money to set up endowments to first influence, then take over, the education establishment. Here we are, 100 years later. Has General Electric now sold out the Polish republic on missile defense for a nepahrious objective? People are asking that question?

      I’m glad to see Glenn Beck tonight starting to go back to the Wilson administration. I hope that he will expose this century long conspiracy that has led us to today’s mess.

      • Evangeline permalink
        September 19, 2009 11:46 am

        The takeover of the schools was the long-range plan, and the generations the socialists, communists, or progressives (take you pick) have influenced are now so blinded they still cannot wake from the dream. When even these young conservatives come through this system, they cannot understand the filter that obstructs their vision.

        What troubles me most is how the history of the nation is always read through contemporary criticism and comment. We should read the founders, who wrote extensively in letters and pamphlets beyond the founding documents, and take them at their own words. It is as if Christians would endlessly read current books about theology, and never pick up a bible.

        Just because someone is an Evangelical his views on the founders ought not to be dismissed without consideration. Find sources you can respect, go to the source documents, find the truth yourself.

      • Swemson permalink
        September 19, 2009 11:57 am


        I must disagree with one thing you say above….

        George Soros isn’t a capitalist…. he’s a parasite… He’s never participated in the CREATION of wealth..

        Traders, in most cases, perform a needed service to the markets they trade in, by stabilizing them and insuring their liquidity. But traders can also do damage, as we’ve seen in the last 2 years quite vividly… And Soros is one of the worst.

        • swathdiver permalink
          September 19, 2009 2:02 pm


          It’s Statists like Soros who have abused the Capitalist system. Capitalism properly used spreads freedom and prosperity. In my opinion, once we defeat the Statists, safeguards need to be placed that will protect society from their/its rise ever again in the United States.

          • Swemson permalink
            September 19, 2009 2:26 pm

            You’re absolutely right….

            One of the worst characteristics of the left is they can’t seem to hear a lot of us when we say that there were plenty of mistakes made by the right as well. The disgraceful failures of the SEC and the Federal Reserve to properly police and manage wall street, if not the direct cause, is certainly a major contributory factor to the current economic mess…

            Has anyone else noticed the close relationship between Goldman Sachs and the Democratic party ?

      • Wayne permalink
        September 20, 2009 11:28 am

        Great insight, Jonathan. I have recently received a copy of Rene Wormser’s book, “Foundations Their power and Influence”, which I’m in the process of reading. He was involved with the Reece Committee and its investigation into charitable foundations before it was prematurely disbanded.

        Another Rockefeller worth becoming aware of would be David Rockefeller, who although in his nineties is still a big influence in this world. Being born to enormous wealth did not deter him from becoming infatuated with Fabian Socialism. Of course he’s also big on world government donating the land on which the United Nations building in Manhattan was constructed.

        To get the best insight into Woodrow Wilson, do some research on Colonel Edward Mandell House, who became Wilson’s closest adviser even to the point of being considered Wilson’s alter ego. As influential as he was on Woodrow Wilson his most sinister contribution to our world today may have been the Council on Foreign Relations. His ideal of “socialism as envisioned by Karl Marx” has been advanced over the years by this Shadow Government organization to which politicians of left and right belong.

        To the extent that Glenn Beck points to both political parties being complicit in bringing the country and world to its present state — I salute Glenn Beck for not pretending that the problems will be resolved if only another “conservative” could be elected.

  16. Jeanne Minton permalink
    September 18, 2009 7:16 am

    The policies of Obama and the Left are anti-human:

    San Joaquin Valley dust bowl
    Small businesses (and lives) destroyed by CPISA
    ACORN facilitating prostitution
    GM bondholders rights overriden

    please add to my list

  17. mary ann permalink
    September 18, 2009 7:54 am

    I am so thankful for David, Rush and Glenn, et al for telling me what is going on. There is no way I could keep on top of what goes on without them. Isn’t it a shame that people who actually tell the truth are called such terrible names? I really worry for their safety in this current climate. Stay safe as you continue to uphold America!

  18. steve preston permalink
    September 18, 2009 8:00 am

    Great article,Mr. Horowitz! I really appreciate your unique insight and passion. Thanks.

  19. Wayne permalink
    September 18, 2009 8:40 am

    Great article, David. I agree that Glenn Beck is the target of a massive campaign of personal destruction. Let’s keep in mind that some of the loudest public voices shouting against Glenn Beck come from MSNBC and we all know who those voices are. Let’s also keep in mind that it becomes more evident by the day that MSNBC is the voice on the public air waves of the Obama administration — the American version of the old Soviet Pravda. When has the power of the American state ever been directed publicly at the personal destruction of its own private citizens?

    I watch these clowns on MSNBC just to inform myself on the viciousness of this organized campaign to destroy anybody who has the temerity to step forward to express an opinion that is not favorable to these leftists from Joe the Plumber and some of the individuals who have been publicly identified at tea parties and town hall protests. The schtick on MSNBC is already stale, at least to people capable of thinking for themselves. If they are preaching to a choir of followers who agree with the MSNBC personal attacks, what does that say about the level of their ability to think rationally as human beings?

    When people like Glenn Beck step forward to expose individuals or issues to the light of day I’m sure they realize that they will be attacked. Even Olbermann has put out a request for his minions to provide him with any dirt available on Glenn Beck.

    On the positive side I’m sure Glenn Beck’s following grows daily as he continues his fight courageously — those attracted by the voices of MSNBC defending the acts of the expanding power of the state should be ashamed. The sad state of journalism and the MSM is understandable by looking at the sad and sick state of affairs at MSNBC.

  20. September 18, 2009 8:52 am

    Vivid, poignant rebuke to the “censor Beck” now folks.

    First of all, let’s remember the value of the marketplace of ideas. Second, let’s remember the first amendment! Perhaps Beck – and other conservative patriots – should place the first amendment on a scroll during their broadcast. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, and freedom of assembly are all under attack today.

    By defending classic American values – which are enlightenment values -, we will expose the fanaticism and zeal behind the leftist censors.

    Free speech remains a sacred principle. Tell Obama. Tell the FCC. Tell Time magazine.

  21. Bob Schwalbaum permalink
    September 18, 2009 10:17 am

    Amazing, David, you’re the greatest!.

    But, far be it from me to defend the likes of David Frum.. but as we embrace with joyful arms those radicals (such as yourself) who come to us “from the dark side”.. we must also accept the fact that we will have defectors.. and treat them with respect.

  22. September 18, 2009 10:20 am

    It’s not Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh or any other Conservative that are “madmen.” They’re not ignoring the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Federalist Papers, or the values and traditional culture that made America the great country it is. It’s those who are trying to “turn the tables” on the American culture that are doing that. They’ve turned “progressive” in to a nasty anti-American word. They’re trying to turn America into a Third-World Country. We didn’t fight the Revolutionary War to dominated by any government particularly our own. The Left agenda reverses EVERYTHING that IS AMERICA and it needs to be stopped ASAP! Thanks for that article, it is a great one.

  23. stephen villalobos permalink
    September 18, 2009 10:33 am

    pure hogwash dh. glen beck will destroy glen beck.

  24. Judy permalink
    September 18, 2009 10:42 am

    While you and I value the “marketplace of ideas”, the Progressives in our country believe in the solo market of their ideology. Based in the belief that all other ideologies are either irvevalent or dangerous and therefore deserving of destruction. David, you are correct, when you conclude that in time the Progressives in the country will want “a truce” as a ruse to regroup and then attack again. It is time that we use their tactics of aggressive in-your-face, unrelenting attacks on their core structure and the surrounding media pawns that protect and reinforce the kings position. I know that it is contrary to the belief that we need to have a civilized discourse, and open to different positions and beliefs, however, if we do not take the perverbial bull by the horns and stern this country back in the direction of our constitution and foundation of our forefathers, we WILL lose this battle.Obama’s election was not by accident. It occurred after decades of preliminary footwork by Progressives and the communists that saw the long goal, and foresake the gratification of immediate satisfaction.Where have I heard that before? Oh yea, Van Jones.So I suggest everyone buckle up, it’s going to be a bumpy ride. The next target needs to be Valerie Jarrett. She is the head of the viper and tied to the hip with the Obama’s. I was not surprised to hear how well known she is in Chicago. She is known as a person that is in “lock step with the Daley thugs” and “not to be crossed” according to a friend that works with Caremark corporate in Chicago. Valerie Jarrett is the link between the communist czars, Michelle and Barack Obama and the Soros machine (Center for American Progress). Stand strong in the truth. We must stand together and not let them divide and conquer. New words : racisters (those that accuse us of racisism) and bigoters (those that accuse us of being bigots).

  25. September 18, 2009 10:49 am

    MSNBC… NBC… CNBC are owned by GE

    GE Capital has money problems and has become the world’s biggest nonbank finance company.

    Under Obama:
    1. Jeff Immelt, GE’s CEO is appointed Obama’s economic advisor
    2. Jeff Immelt, GE’s CEO is appointed to the board of directors of Federal Reserve Bank of New York
    3. GE will be meeting with Putin from Russia after Obama announced the US will pull its missile defense program from Poland.

    GE is getting ALOT of help from Obama and all GE has to do in return is shower the airwaves for Obama.

    MSNBC…. NBC…. CNBC are NOT in the best interest of the US citizens.

    Pretty obvious to me.

    • pbrauer permalink
      September 18, 2009 10:10 pm

      LOL!! What size tinfoil hat you wear, ms?

      • Fritz Becker permalink
        September 18, 2009 10:41 pm

        G.E received a bailout of $300+ million dollars through the TARP program, I’m afraid Reynolds Aluminum has no relation.

  26. D. Michael Miller permalink
    September 18, 2009 12:30 pm


    Wonderful article about Glenn Beck. He may be our last hope. It would be funny to watch the liberals foam at the mouth over him if they weren’t so dangerous.

  27. Keith permalink
    September 18, 2009 1:19 pm

    I don’t know why People believe everything those high paid mainstream journalist are telling us. The stations are owned and controlled by the same people that are oppressing the average american.
    It’s not about left or right, the elites control both parties, so it doesn’t matter who’s in the white house. It’s just that the elites can get away with more crap with Obama, because he’s one of most popular and forgivable presidents in history.

    • Fritz Becker permalink
      September 18, 2009 10:50 pm

      It is very much about right and left, or rather statists and non statists, those who believe that the government should control your life from cradle to grave and those that believe the opposite. The larger a government is the more opportunity and temptation there is for corruption. As for B.O’s popularity I guess you haven’t read the latest polls, they are sinking faster then boat made out of newspaper.

  28. September 18, 2009 6:15 pm

    Bring it on!

  29. September 18, 2009 6:56 pm

    Time to realize that Obama is working for the World Domination of Islam.

    Obama/Soetoro is either a Muslim Apostate subject to the Death Penalty as per Mohammeds edict, or an Islamic 5th columnist.

    Was it an deceptive action of a Muslim, infiltrating the American society and politics, to join a so called Christian sect preaching hatred against the American Institutions.
    Follow this up with the Chicago political sphere and ACORN.

    Do Muslims hate Obama, and sharpen their weapons to follow Mohammeds edict of Death for Apostates, or do they honour him for his achievement of infiltration into the highest office of your Democratic country, and to destroy the GREAT SATAN.

    I’d say its the later.

    Warriors of the Light contact me at,

    • fiftyfifty permalink
      September 18, 2009 9:45 pm

      LAB —– are you afraid of the dark? why do you fear Obama. you people need not play in something you no nothing about. msnbc is more your speed

    • September 19, 2009 6:18 am

      The “Obama is a secret Muslim” canard is nutjob stuff.

  30. pbrauer permalink
    September 18, 2009 10:08 pm

    Beck has shown himself to be a racist, famously he said on Fox & Friends President Obama has “a deep seated hatred for white people.” Limbaugh blames Obama for the beating in Illinois and has suggested school buses should be segregated. Is there any wonder why some people say that conservatives are racist?

    • Jonathan permalink
      September 19, 2009 12:36 am

      Is there any wonder that lots of people say liberals are idiots?

      You can keep yelling “racism” in the crowded theater, Chicken Little. Keep yelling it loud and strong. Its a good thing. Because the more you yell it, the more ineffective it becomes. Eventually, noone will be scared of the term’s misapplication any more. And you will be disarmed.

    • theblanque permalink
      September 19, 2009 2:56 pm

      People said conservatives were racists because it was–up until recently–an effective shame tactic. The conservatives of the past worried about how they were portrayed in public, and so caved to the passive/aggressive attacks of the Left.

      But, like a magician who performs the same trick over and over, it become clear how the illusion is created, and people stop believing it. No matter how often the man in the ridiculous cape and turban shouts “Hocus Pocus”, the rabbit just won’t come out of the hat anymore.

  31. Jonathan permalink
    September 19, 2009 1:04 am

    That last paragraph disturbs me the most of some misassumptions that are made in this otherwise insightful article. I’ll start at the end of the road:

    We don’t make a truce with the Left. We defeat them. As Rush says, we defeat them, but keep one or two around on the college campuses for the sake of remembering.

    We don’t circle the wagons. People who circle the wagons are on the defensive and reduced to an indefensible defense. What we do is we charge from the flanks and do a pincer assault to encircle and cut off the front line. Circling the wagons and firing only when fired upon settles for the enemy owning everything outside the circle.

    The death of ACORN represented a good first counterattack. Let’s keep charging to the enemy’s center mass.

    This war is NOT about Obama. It’s been going on for 100 years. What it is about is Americans who’ve been fighting for their country for a century, suddenly resurging against the most obvious assault on liberty since the days of Woodrow Wilson. Coming awake, after having been intimidated or lulled into silence since the days of Vietnam. And suddenly, after laughing and sneering about “Domino Theory” conspiracies, others who almost slept their way into slavery are suddenly loving Glenn Beck and his message.

    Beck is starting to sound more and more like a conspiracy theorist – especially last night. And I love him for it. Obama is Woodrow Wilson Number Two.

    We must take back the educational system first, as a key to recapturing the culture. We must resist neo-conservatism and secular humanist based conservatism and return to the original metaphysical assumptions that this nation is founded on.

    Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is God’s best will for mankid. God endows us with them. God CREATED men equal and to be subject to the rule of law. Not capricious tyranny from either Democrat or Republican leftists.

    P.S. Irving Kristol is now dead. Symbolic for his movement? I hope so. And I don’t mean a disavowal of Israel either.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 19, 2009 12:04 pm


      One doesn’t have to be religious to aspire to the same basic principles of Life, Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness.

      Many of us who do not practice any form of religion have come to the same conclusions through logic and reason.

      There’s simply no other sane way to live.

      • theblanque permalink
        September 19, 2009 3:10 pm

        Yet non-religious have been involved in the worst human rights crimes in history, killing more people in the 20th Century that the previous 19 centuries combined–from the massacres of the Vende’e and The Terror, to the Great Cultural Revolution and the Stalinist Purges. They, too, claimed logic and reason as their guiding principles, and yet those oh-so-enlightened thinkers left the ground crimson with the products of their non-religious thinking.

        You can take your smug, self-assured superiority and cram it.

        • Swemson permalink
          September 19, 2009 3:50 pm

          So logic and reason are to be shunned because of Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot.. ?

          Well that makes perfect sense.

          Those 4 animals, and other tyrants like them are the best proof that exists of why we need a world ruled by REASON than any other…

          Look back in history, and tell me how effective the church and religious thought has been in preventing viscous tyrants like Genghis Khan in the past…

          And while you’re at it, take a look at how many poor people in the last couple of thousand years were kept ignorant & poor by the church, which has known for ages that the best way to keep control of the masses is to keep them barefoot and ignorant.

          There are two things that make ordinarily rational men behave in totally irrational ways, one is the pursuit of sex, and the other is religion… All in all, I think it’s pretty clear that horniness has done far less damage to mankind over the years than religion has.

          • theblanque permalink
            September 19, 2009 4:25 pm

            So logic and reason are to be shunned because of Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot.. ?

            Straw-Man Argument; I never claimed logic and reason were to be shunned. I pointed out that the greatest murders of the last century were non-religious who claimed their actions were directed by logic and reason.

            Look back in history, and tell me how effective the church and religious thought has been in preventing viscous tyrants like Genghis Khan in the past…

            That would be the Church that helped negotiate the Peace of Westphalia, reigned in Charlemagne (and thereby ended the slaughter of the Saxons), that provided sanctuary to the Jews during WWII..that Church, right?

            And while you’re at it, take a look at how many poor people in the last couple of thousand years were kept ignorant & poor by the church, which has known for ages that the best way to keep control of the masses is to keep them barefoot and ignorant.

            That would be the Church that developed the University and the Hospital, yes? That helped bring about the science of Genetics, the printing press, double-entry bookkeeping, pasteurization, animal husbandry…right?

            Whereas, your “rational and logical” non-religious side has produced…the Massacre of the Vende’e, the Great Terror, The Great Leap Forward, The Cultural Revolution, the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, the Stalinist Purges, Zyklon B and weaponized smallpox.

            You’re not dealing with some historically ignorant sheep here–I am aware of the last two thousand years of history.

            • Swemson permalink
              September 19, 2009 5:37 pm

              Your arguments in defense of religion are specious, but typical of religious people who are understandably scared by those not similarly afflicted.

              So you just keep believing in your fairy tales and take it easy… Don’t worry, there are enough rational folks around to make your life easier and more comfortable.

              ALL of the glories of man’s accomplishments come from the single minded focus of a rational human mind. All of your childish fairy tales contribute nothing other than hatred and strife.

            • Jonathan permalink
              September 20, 2009 1:28 am

              Swemson, here we are on the mean streets of Dodge City witnessing a mental gunfight. And you showed up with a pocketknife.

              LeBlanque, go easy on him. Maybe give him a chance to pick up a rock to throw at you.

              Swemson, you have no arguments. Going back to my original statement. Perhaps you non-theist policy makers do have a rational metaphysical argument toward life, liberty, etc. But it’s just curiously coincidental that humanists never produce such societies anywhere they get control. They always crush freedom. Atheists in America bloviate about “preserving liberty” to advance a leftist agenda. But, once the materialist gets in power, the opposite happens. Why?

              Because there is no higher basis for rule of law. Rule becomes by default, Godless. And when the idealism phase is finished, the Godless rulers inevitably turn on one another and the people. You will always be dominated by “ends justifies means” thinking.

              So, quit buying all your own leftist propaganda about us “dumb ignorant conservatives” and accept the fact that we know more about history and FACTS than your side does. Because noone puts a higher value on results over intentions than the conservative in general. You’re a relativist at heart. Every society that you people get your hands on will turn out to be JUST LIKE those of Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot. Anything based on humanist utopianism.

              And by the way. No one will ever blame the church for the nuclear arms race, pollution, global warming, industrialization, eugenics, depletion of resources and the ozone layer either. Science might have done a better job of things in the 20th century if they had maintained Newton’s Christian sensibilities.

          • swathdiver permalink
            September 19, 2009 7:35 pm


            You’re a pretty logical guy until it comes to religion. I suspect you had a negative encounter with a false Church or Marxist propaganda. Could be wrong, but America was founded on Judeo-Christian values and it’s those values which brought freedom, democracy and prosperity to nearly every corner of the earth. The earth’s inhabitants went from using wood for heat to harnessing the atom for nuclear power. Godless socialism/Communism has retarded the advance of science in America and in every country that tried it before. They contribute little to society, other then death and taxes!

            • Jonathan permalink
              September 20, 2009 1:34 am

              I suspect Swenson fell headlong into a boiling cauldron of leftist education. He got “edumucated” at some “Institute of Higher Learning” and paid umpteen dollars to have knowledge removed and replaced with political correctness. All these guys sound alike.

              The best argument is just to keep reminding them how well their Marxist worldview has worked in the biggest laboratory of all, for over 100 years. Heck, they can’t even produce good artwork. Thanks to Marxism in the visual arts world, we’ve lost a treasured heritage unlike any other in the world.

            • Swemson permalink
              September 20, 2009 10:22 pm

              Swath, Jonathan and theblanque.. you all have to find another form of exercise besides jumping to conclusions.

              You write:

              “Atheists in America bloviate about “preserving liberty” to advance a leftist agenda.”

              It’s probably true that there are far more people on the left, the ones O’Reilly refers to as secularists, who don’t buy any of your invisible man fairy tales, than there are on the right. But you make a huge mistake when you assume that all atheists are on the left. A great many of us are on the right…. but rarely in the Conservative party… While there are many Republicans who are atheists, most of us are more attracted to the Libertarian point of view… but that doesn’t mean that we agree with everything the Libertarians say either.

              If you want to know my political philosophy, it’s simple, I’m liberal about social issues like gay marriage, abortion, censorship, etc, and I’m probably further to the right than anyone you know when it comes to a belief in small, unobtrusive government as defined by our Constitution, and an economic model of PURE laissez faire capitalism.

              But most of all I’m an Objectivist. Google it if you want to.

              Objectivism, Ayn Rand’s philosophy, is based upon the absolute sanctity of individual rights. Whether you view individual rights as coming from god or from any other idea, I suspect that we’re on the same page on that… I simply know who I am, and I don’t need the blessings, approval or the permission of anyone, real or supernatural to tell me that I have a right to my own life. I also therefore have the right to live my life for my own self, and to do anything that I want to benefit myself or those that I may love or cherish, as long as I do not violate any else’s rights to their life, liberty & property etc… We differ a bit here, because your religion teaches you that you’re your brother’s keeper, and that the highest purpose that you can attain in life is some form of altruism in which you live your life for others. But if that’s what you believe, then knock yourself out, it doesn’t bother me. I don’t care what you do, as long (once again) as it doesn’t interfere with my right to live my life the way I choose.

              That’s another issue on which we slightly differ however.

              While I simply want is to “live my life for my own sake, neither sacrificing myself to others, nor others to myself” you religious folks always seem to want to make me think like you do, and behave according to your moral standards. My rules are simple, I want everyone to be 100% free to do whatever they want as long as they don’t hurt others. You’re different. You don’t think that 2 gays should have the right to be married by a justice of the piece, because it offends your religious beliefs, and you refuse to recognize their right to do something that makes them happy and that has absolutely nothing to do with you whatsoever. You want to impose your moral vales on others. I don’t care WHAT others do as long as they don’t violate MY rights to do what I want. When I refer to the religious right scaring the crap out of lots of people, this is what I’m talking about… YOU always want to impose YOUR beliefs on others. You may THINK that it’s OK to do so because your beliefs are HOLY, or some other such nonsense, but it’s NOT… It violates the simple rule of live & let live.

              The reason you are always so threatened by atheists, and by others such as gays, is because you’ve never really been 100% secure in your belief systems. Inevitably, as you go through life you see horrible things happen, which causes you to wonder, how could a loving god allow such a thing to happen ? There are contradictions. You have doubts, because down deep, beneath all your brainwashing, you still have a rational mind that’s not comfortable with all of your simplistic answers and fairy tales.. but you persist in believing them, because the possibility that you’re wrong, and that all of the time you spent in prayer was wasted, is simply too terrifying for your fragile egos to deal with… I pity your plight, but deep down, I really don’t care… I’m too busy living my own life, working to better myself and my family, and working to solve problems or to be culturally creative, because that’s what drives me and pleases me.

              When I was a teen visiting my grandparents in the Boston area, I was prohibited from hitting balls at a public driving range on Sunday before noon, because the community there believed that I should be in church. I never stopped anyone from going to church, nor would I ever… Why ? Because what they’re doing doesn’t affect me at all. Too bad it doesn’t work both ways.

              When your obsession to force others to think and believe as you do, reach their ultimate expression, you start burning witches and beheading infidels. It’s all the same. It’s only a difference of degree.

              So YOU have to learn to accept the fact that others don’t necessarily agree with you on everything, and learn to live and let live. There’s no contradiction or conflict between the way atheists want to live and the way you do, as long as YOU don’t create any. All you have to learn to do is live and let live… History indicates that you’ll never be able to accept that, but I know that you will, for the simple reason that as our society continues to advance, and discover more and more answers about the mysteries of the universe, more and more people become enlightened and learn to accept reality as it is, without fearing the unknown that your gods have been protecting you from throughout man’s infancy. It’s time to grow up children. There’s a wonderful and exciting world out there, and if you’d only approach it with reason rather than with faith, then you’d have the power to do glorious things. Man has evolved into a creature for whom anything is possible. We just have to use our rational minds and we can achieve just about anything.

  32. Donna Vernick permalink
    September 19, 2009 9:56 am

    Glen Beck is a strong heroic man. We really need to support him. I wonder how long Fox News will keep him on and how long his advertisers will stand behind him. This news agency has a real gig going. Did anyone notice that they have grabbed viewers from both sides of the aisle, (conservative and strong leftist)by owning 2 channels? One that grabs the attention of conservative thinking Americans….Fox News network, and one that plays pornographic garbage like “Family Guy” at 7:00 at night with a stupid logo that is on for a second or two, that states “PG 14″…What people are even paying attention to it? This is just one of the shows that they use to grab the extreme left…Our country is being programmed by the TV, but Fox is really smart and savy to be able to cash in on both sides of the fence.
    If in any way, Glen Beck becomes a financial loss for them, they will drop him. So we need to support this guy all we can. He’s brave.

  33. pbrauer permalink
    September 19, 2009 2:59 pm

    Glenn Beck is a dihonest charatan and all around smear merchant.

    On Sept. 17 (Constitution day) Beck presented a very well produced video that greatly misrepresented President Obama’s view of our Constitution. He did this by editing out certain portions of audio and highlighting others. Specifically, Beck edited out where Obama said: “I think it’s a remarkable document.” And Highlighted with on screen text when he said its “An inperfect document.” But Beck edited out Obama reasoning for saying this and leaving the wrong impression. Obama reasoning was that Blacks were not considered citizens during the framing of the Constitution. (Raise your hand if you knew that.)

    No wonder you guys love this man, he is a deciever. Here is the text of what Obama actually said:
    HOST: Barack Obama, what are your thoughts on the Declaration and Constitution?

    OBAMA: Well, you know, I think it’s a remarkable document. I think —

    HOST: Which one?

    OBAMA: The original Constitution, as well as — as well as the Civil War amendments, but I think it is an imperfect document, and I think it is a document that reflects some deep flaws in American culture — the colonial culture nascent at that time.

    African-Americans were not — first of all, they weren’t African-Americans. The Africans at the time were not considered as part of the polity that was of concern to the framers. I think that, as [program co-panelist] Richard [John] said, it was a nagging problem in the same way that, these days, we might think of environmental issues or some other problem that, where you have to balance, you know, cost-benefits, as opposed to seeing it as a moral problem involving persons of moral worth.

    And, in that sense, I think we can say that the Constitution reflected a enormous blind spot in this culture that carries on until this day, and that the framers had that same blind spot. I don’t think the two views are contradictory to say that it was a remarkable political document that paved the way for where we are now, and to say that it also reflected the fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day.

    • Jonathan permalink
      September 20, 2009 1:43 am

      Okay, pbrauer, I raise my hand. I knew it. What’s your point? My point is that it then seems contradictory for your side to constantly refer to the Constitution when it is convenient for you to advance a leftist agenda. Such as on non-existant rights or on “separation of church and state.”

      What Beck edited out has NOTHING to do with the overall truth he was making. Leftists have no love or respect for the Constitution, and they want to undo it. But yet, they keep professing a love for it.

      You’re the one with a problem. Show me where the Constitution denies any ethnic or religious group the ability to be citizens. Show me where the Constitution specifically mandates that the country will be a lily white citizenry only. Go ahead. And I’ll enjoy watching you try, because then I’ll start attacking you on all the different inconsistencies that inevitably arise.

      Number One: If the Constitution is a “living breathing document” that can be interpreted according to the times, as every single black Democrat congressman in the universe will attest, than how can it POSSIBLY ever be imperfect at all?

      • pbrauer permalink
        September 20, 2009 8:31 am

        Are serious Jonathan, haven’t you ever heard of the Three-fifths compromise and the Fourteenth Amendment? You must be smarter and more schooled than that. Sheesh.

        • September 20, 2009 8:42 am

          You do understand that the Constitution doesn’t mention race don’t you? The language doesn’t talk about black or white, it talks about those enslaved.

          And that the 3/5ths compromise was about denying the slave states greater political power? If you were a racist during the founding then you wanted slaves to be counted as full people so that your state would have more power. It was the northern, anti-slavery people that didn’t want slaves counted at all.


          • pbrauer permalink
            September 20, 2009 9:36 am

            I completely understand the reasoning behind the 3/5 compromise. But it t was the Africans who were enslaved not white people and if it were not for the future amendment they might still be enslaved.

            What is your reasoning, David, for Beck editing out selective words if wasn’t to mislead his views and portray President Obama.


        • Jonathan permalink
          September 20, 2009 10:05 am

          I need not know anything about those two Constitutional components to know that you are trying to deflect the discussion to another topic. So yes, I am smarter than that. The Constitution says nothing about who can’t be citizens based on categories of race, gender, ethnicity, religion, etc. The 3/5th compromise and the 14th amendment have nothing to do with advancing your argument. They advance mine.

          The founding fathers envisioned America as a white culture based on Western-Christian metaphysical precepts of transcendant law and free markets, and they believed that would never change. But we will notice they didn’t build anything into the Constitution to enforce that. That’s why blacks of the Frederick Douglas mindset did what they did. Otherwise, all would have all gone to Liberia. Capiche?

          Again, the things Beck edited out had no bearing whatsoever on the premise of his assertion. Everybody knows that slaves were not citizens; not the point anyway. I would like to know from Obama exactly what “blind spot” in the Constitution continues “to this day.” Then I would ask him why the Democrat party hasn’t fixed it yet. They aren’t even talking about fixing it, whatever it is. They aren’t saying it’s the lack of health care free for all. I would also ask him how he got where he is today with that “blind spot” in place.

          But, at any rate, Obama says the Constitution is a living breathing document, Right? And the left is desperately concerned with Constitutional civil rights. Right? And all the other stuff that they claim violates the Constitution, like school prayer and a ban on abortion? I betcha’ Obama wouldn’t like that approach if, one day, society decides to return to slavery.

          • pbrauer permalink
            September 20, 2009 2:43 pm


            You have not convinced me one iota that Becks editing of President (that sounds good 🙂 ) Obama was not a smear job. Why did he give FDR a pass? Isn’t FDR the most reviled Democratic presidents ever? How about Woodrow Wilson?

            Yet the onscreen message was quite clear “222 years later.” He was targeting Obama.

            Was Condoleezza Rice correct when she said at a commencement address “We have thrived despite the fact that when the Founding Fathers said, “We, the people,” they didn’t mean me?”

            This quote can be found in the following link:

            • Jonathan permalink
              September 20, 2009 4:51 pm

              I’m not interested in convincing you that Beck wasn’t doing a smear job. You are always going to think that anyway.

              I think we should be smearing leftists at every opportunity. Constantly. We need to start smearing the academics and educrats vehemently . Their turn is coming soon. We need to revive the Smith Act and investigate them.

            • Joseph White permalink
              September 20, 2009 9:37 pm

              Jonathan said, “I think we should be smearing leftists at every opportunity. Constantly. We need to start smearing the academics and educrats vehemently . Their turn is coming soon. We need to revive the Smith Act and investigate them.”

              To this, I say we shouldn’t smear anyone at all. We, as rational, intelligent, thoughtful adults should be seeking to change peoples minds by providing thoughtful, adult topics, and educating people by showing them what’s right and wrong. We should do this by taking the liberals words and showing them to be the lies that they are.

              If we smear someone, then they will paint us as right wing kooks, and we’ll look no smarter than Shehan and code pink.

            • Swemson permalink
              September 20, 2009 10:45 pm


              I’ve always agreed with you on this, but lately, I’m being forced to consider a wider variety of possible methods, as long as they’re not dishonest.

              The fact is, that the left’s tactic of repeating and repeating the same accusations are effective, especially on people with weak minds.

              The idea that Bush was a complete moron and liar, was repeated so often, and in so many often entertaining ways, that a huge % of Americans who are not capable of thinking intelligently for themselves bought into that BS…

              We have plenty of FACTUAL evidence which we can use repetitively, that many will see as smears, but if used creatively may start to work. One of the ideas that I’ve been toying with is the idea of producing a sitcom in which the corrupt behavior of the far left is exaggerated to make fun of them, in the style of a TV show like “Married With Children”… one that appeals to the lowest level of intellect… i.e., the ones we need to reach. I’ll bet that way more than half of the voting public just believes whatever they hear the most, and clearly the far left is MUCH better at getting their message to them than the right is…

              And it’s not as if we’re going to have to struggle to come up with silly ideas… you know.. like congressmen with freezers full of cash!

              The bottom line is that the far left is posing a much bigger threat to freedom and liberty in this country right now, than it ever has before. I believe that it’s reached the emergency level, and that if we don’t use EVERY weapon at our disposal to deal with this right now, it’s almost certain that they’ll win…

              If smears will work, then I say we have to consider using them now.

  34. September 20, 2009 3:52 am

    Marxists like Obama are only able to get traction to the degree to which they are able to obscure their ideology.

    Castro was able to seize power in Cuba because the existing regime was corrupt, and because he pretended to be fighting for democracy. He revealed his true colors only after his rivals were all dead.

    This is also why his chief provocateur Che Guevara failed in his efforts to create communist revolutions in other nations.

    • pbrauer permalink
      September 20, 2009 5:57 pm

      Jonathan: “I think we should be smearing leftists at every opportunity. Constantly. We need to start smearing the academics and educrats vehemently .”

      Of course you do, Jonathan, facts mean nothing to you. It’s the ends justifies the means mentality. And you guys want to call these tactics conservative?

      You can’t explain why President Obama’s were painstakingly edited when it would have been much simpler to leave them in.

      • Jonathan permalink
        September 21, 2009 2:38 am

        Pbrauer, the left smears with fictions. I believe in smearing lies with facts. Conservatives are good at smearing liberals with facts, because conservatives believe in facts. Liberals take the Benjamin Bloom approach to facts: The highest form of intellectual development is when an individual no longer believes in right and wrong.

        Don’t talk to me about smearing ma’am. I sat through college for six years and got smeared by the verbal flatulence of leftist professors every day. I know who spit on vets and called them babykillers. I know who goes down to Cuba every year and back slaps with Castro. I know who Chavez said was more leftist than he is.

        Here’s the last word for you:

        Glenn Beck reported on ACORN. ACORN is now defunded by Congress. People got fired. People got charged with crimes. Case closed.

        Glenn Beck reported on Van Jones. Van Jones is history.

        Case closed.

        • pbrauer permalink
          September 21, 2009 7:57 am


          Don’t get your panties is a wad. Are you aware that the FAKE pimp and FAKE prostitute were scammed by the woman in the San Bernardino ACORN office? She told them that she killed husband and of course Faux News didn’t fact check her story. Turns out her husband is very much alive. Yet Faux news reported this all a fact. Why am I not surprised?

          • Jonathan permalink
            September 21, 2009 9:31 am

            Undercover pimp. Undercover Prostitute. Fruitcake ACORN employee tells psychopathic lie about murder. No wonder she had no problem with child sex slavery using imported children. But yet, for you the problem is “fact checking”, as if Fox made any issue at all about this alleged murder. I didn’t even know about this until you posted it. So… maybe you should stop relying on the left wing propaganda for your arguments.

            Fox News: Reports facts.

            Result: Obama disavows Reverend Wright and throws him away like dirty bathwater. Case closed.

            Result: ACORN defunded by Congress. ACORN employees fired. ACORN under criminal investigation in multiple states. Census Bureau severs connection with ACORN. Case closed.

            Result: Van Jones resigns. Case closed.

            Why do you support the communists, pbrauer? Why are you supporting treason against your country? Why are you defending those who despise the Constitution?

  35. joe white permalink
    September 20, 2009 9:01 pm

    Jonathan said, I think we should be smearing leftists at every opportunity. Constantly. We need to start smearing the academics and educrats vehemently.

    I think that smearing is the wrong way to go. As intelligent rational thinking adults, we should work on showing other people the flaws of the liberal mindset. If we go out half-baked and call them liars and thieves without showing them why, we’ll be no better than code-pink and Shehan, and they’ll paint us a kooks, and we’ll lose the message,

    • Jonathan permalink
      September 21, 2009 2:49 am

      Sure Joe. You think it’s the wrong way to go. And that’s why… we’ve successfully kept the education system from being overrun by Marxists for 70 years, for starters. That’s how we’ve managed to keep the country from drifting to the left steadily for 70 years… in another dimension of time maybe.

      Na. I say forget that John McCain “My friends on the other side of the aisle” approach. It’s time to dump the moderate wing of the conservative movement, and dump the GOP too. It’s time to get real. Hopefully, the tea parties are only the beginning. People are tired of the “lay down and die” approach. You can either get tired of it too, or just lay down and wait for the apocalypse to come.

      You don’t call everyday people you meet “liars and thieves.” You save that smear invective for people like Van Jones and ACORN. You smear THEM. Like Glenn Beck did. And it worked. ACORN is defunded. Van Jones is exposed and resigned. You don’t get mad at the dupes, the desperate shills, the ignorant, the uninformed, the brainwashed. You get mad at the evil SOBs who are running the show. You smear THEM. Smear them with the truth.

      Good lord man. If you have to smear someone with lies, then you have nothing on them. So, we don’t have anything on Obama? Smear him with the truth!

      You’re a conservative, right? Then, for you, results are what matter, not intentions.

      • Joseph White permalink
        September 21, 2009 7:17 am


        If you are doing a comedy show on the vein of Married with Children, then it’s not smearing, it’s satyrizing, and satyrizing is allowed. Comedy is always allowed.

        Now, as for your question about whether or not I’m a conservative. Yes, I am, but in some instances, I am a moderate. Heck, most American’s are, why do you think a successful president goes for the moderate approach?

        Yes, results do matter, but not at the cost of my honesty, my integrity, and my sacred honor. I won’t lie to people, nor will I kill people, nor will I do anything illegal.

        • Jonathan permalink
          September 21, 2009 7:45 am


          If you have right on your side, and the facts bear you out, than you don’t need to worry about lying or doing anything illegal or being dishonest.

          I don’t worry about who the facts are going to bear out.

          It’s not my side that has been reinventing history for 40 years. It’s not my side that has been doing everything in secret. It’s not my side that’s been laughing and sneering at people for making accusations of a secret agenda. It’s not my side that blames America for everything that goes wrong in the world.

          But it is my side that has watched apathetically for decades as the left has destroyed the key institutions of this country with impunity and arrogant disdain for facts. Watched as our most precious assets, the family and the child, have been buried in contempt and abuse. The USA is among the most family and child UNfriendly countries in the world; and it isn’t because of conservatives doing it. But conservatives have allowed it.

          I say smear the left. Smear them with the truth.

          • September 21, 2009 7:49 am

            “Smear them with the truth” is an oxymoron. If it’s the truth then it’s not a smear. I think some definition of terms is needed. A “smear” is an unwarranted, dishonest, usually ad hominem attack on a person.

            • pbrauer permalink
              September 21, 2009 8:04 am

              Thanks David,

              Are you now willing to say that the video Glenn Beck presented on Constitution Day distorted President Obama’s position of the Constitution and in essence was a LIE?

            • September 21, 2009 8:31 am

              Glenn Beck is a human being who makes mistakes and occasionally goes too far — as I’ve admitted on many times. I haven’t reviewed this specific instance you’re referring to so I’m in no position to judge.

              Despite his human failings what is in less dispute is that Beck is a patriot who loves his country and is trying to defend American Freedom. Why would you object to that mission?

            • Jonathan permalink
              September 21, 2009 9:36 am

              “Smear” is also a term meaning “to defeat decisively, to annihalate the opposition in a figurative sense.” Such as, “We really smeared the Dallas Cowboys last week, didn’t we?” That’s my definition of the term.

              Or, it could also mean to “smear” the noses of the left in their own cesspool of philosophical waste, using the powerful tool of facts.

            • Swemson permalink
              September 21, 2009 9:39 am


              I think that what we really mean is creating a barrage of factual accusations, and repeating them so often that it would start to sink in just through the repetition alone.. for example:

              Make a short (15 second) but POWERFUL spot warning people of what’s coming from Obama with some strong images from the Carter years… long gas lines, 22% mortgages etc…

              That IS what’s coming, and I think it’s a safe bet that the voter’s financial self interest will trump their ideology every time..

              People vote their wallets… right ?

            • September 21, 2009 9:42 am

              Jonathan I’m going to stop giving you language advice. Your response here mirrors my encouraging of you not to use “New World Order.”

              “Smear” and “New World Order” do not have good contexts to them. Using them is like shooting yourself in the foot.

              If you insist on sounding like an extremist crackpot then I guess there’s nothing I can do to encourage you otherwise.

          • Joseph White permalink
            September 21, 2009 10:07 am

            Jonathan said, “If you have right on your side, and the facts bear you out, than you don’t need to worry about lying or doing anything illegal or being dishonest.”

            Okay, and I thought I was a tad extremist, but I have nothing on you. I’m almost 100% sure that just before WWII, Hitler had the right on his side, and the facts bore him out, and he took the world to war and killed 6 million jewish people, gypsies, and homosexuals. I’m almost 100% sure that Stalin felt he head the right on his side and the facts, as did Che Guevara, Saddam Hussien, and Fidel Castro.

            Even if you do have the right on your side and you do have the facts, if you break the law to do what you do, then you are no better than a terrorist, or at the very least, a criminal.

            Without law, truth, and justice, anything we try to do is going to doom us to a repeat of the French Revolution.

            It’s only when we are honest, and we can stand the test of truth, that we will be remebered as patriots like Washington, Franklin, Paine, Travis, Bowie, MacArther, Eisenhower, etc.

            • Jonathan permalink
              September 21, 2009 10:16 am

              You are misunderstanding what I am saying. But, no surprise, I suppose. My sentence was poorly worded. However, I do in all fairness believe that you could have picked up on that. Allow me to take another stab.

              “Jonathan said, “If you have right on your side, and the facts bear you out, than you don’t need to worry about lying or doing anything illegal or being dishonest.”

              What Jonathan SHOULD have said is this:

              If you have right on your side, and the facts bear you out, than you don’t need to RESORT to lying or doing anything illegal or being dishonest.

            • MikeInMaine permalink
              September 21, 2009 8:10 pm

              Good GOD man!! You don’t read well?? He said to be TRUTHFUL and LAW-ABIDING!! And he’s said it many times!! WOW!!

  36. MikeInMaine permalink
    September 21, 2009 8:14 pm

    I was replying to Joseph- the site didn’t put my post offset to his(that I can see). Jonathan replied within a millisecond of mine- as well.


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