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Horowitz vs Frum: He’s Wrong About Glenn Beck

September 26, 2009


I agree with you David that this dialogue is getting more focused, and I find it much more pleasurable (and hopefully informative) as a result.

There are two issues here. One is a remarkable conservative outburst against the broadcaster Glenn Beck which includes you, Mark Levin and Pete Wehner among others, and which collectively wishes for his early self-destruction. The message from the three of you is that for the good of the conservative cause he should be silent —  and the sooner the better. Wehner expresses the judgment I detect in all three of your blasts in this sentence: “The role Glenn Beck is playing is harmful in its totality.” ( More than anything else, it is this that I am reacting to. I think this attitude is wrongheaded, absurd, destructive to the conservative cause and a blatant contradiction of the “big tent” philosophy which you otherwise support.

Unfortunately, it is exactly this line of argument that you choose to open this round with, presenting three “gotchas” to convince everyone that Beck is a dangerous moron – or, as the leftwingers at TIME would prefer it “Madman.” To justify your intolerance of Beck you give three examples.

The first is that he expressed his enthusiasm for a Hillary Clinton presidency (over McCain). I seem to recall Ann Coulter doing the same – and not after the fact as an idle speculation but before it, as an incitement against McCain. Before the 2008 election, I heard many conversations among good Republicans about whether conservatism and the Republican Party could survive another George Bush, which is what McCain threatened to be. So when Beck made his remark about Hillary he could very well have had the best interests of conservatives in mind. (Since I wrote this Beck has explained that that is exactly what he was thinking.)

The second gotcha is that Beck suggested that Obama is a better president than McCain would have been. This is another speculative and therefore inconsequential opinion (particularly when Beck, along with Rush, has been the chief thorn in Obama’s side). Chris Buckley actually did vote for Obama? Did you read him out of the conservative movement as a moron and a menace when he did that?

The third gotcha is a Beck comment that he should have voted for Ron Paul (but obviously didn’t). As you know, Ron Paul makes me ill, but politics is a complicated business, and the conservative movement itself is rudderless at the moment and many of its adherents confused. On economic issues Ron Paul resonates with a lot of decent Republicans (even though I view him as a crank). And since Bush failed to defend or explain his foreign policy for four years, and reversed his opposition to terrorists in the Middle East, it’s no wonder that many conservatives are confused and want to pull back to Fortress America. I think a quarter of Republicans or more turned against the Iraq War. Do you want to read them out of the movement too? In sum, I think this comment may be an idle one of frustration, or based on one aspect of Paul’s political position. I’ll be concerned when Beck actually campaigns for Paul (i.e., when this is not an isolated gesture), but not until then.

For someone who doesn’t like take-no-prisoner conservatives, this “gotcha” approach and the auto-da-fe mode of political discourse is passing strange. It seems an expression of precisely the political mentality you claim to despise but worse – because it is directed at someone who is defending this country against its ongoing rape by Obama and the Democratic Party.

Glenn Beck is daily providing a school for millions of Americans in the nature and agendas and networks of the left – something that your fine books do not do, and Mark Levin’s fine books do not do, and Pete Wehner’s volumes of blogs and speeches and position papers – all admirable in my estimation, also do not do.  How are conservatives going to meet the challenge of the left if they don’t understand what it is, how it operates and what it intends? And who else is giving courses in this subject at the moment?

Now I have to confess my own vested interest in this. Because the fact is that I have been attempting to do this from a much smaller platform than Beck’s for many years. Five years ago I put an encyclopedia of the left on the web called Discover the Networks ( It details the chief groups, individuals and funders of the left and maps their agendas and networks. Since I put it up five years ago, 20 million people have visited the site, many of whom have written articles and even books from its information. So far as I can tell, this site has never been mentioned by you or Wehner or Mark Levin or  National Review or the Weekly Standard or the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal. But it has been read by and profoundly influenced the producers and anchors at FoxNews. Among these no one has used it so systematically and relentlessly and to such great effect as Glenn Beck.

The importance of Acorn, the way Acorn is embedded in a network of Soros-connected and left-oriented foundations and 501c3’s, the level of funding, the agendas , the interconnections all carefully documented can be found in DiscovertheNetworks. Through the broadcasts of Glenn Beck they are being made intelligible to millions of Americans – voters and activists – every day.

How important is this politically? Conservatives are outraged by the fact that Acorn received $53 million in federal dollars since 1994. 1994! – the year conservative Republicans led by Newt Gingrich took over the House and the federal purse strings! What were they thinking? They weren’t. They didn’t have a clue that they were funding the largest organization of the very radical left. Now they know.

Intellectuals like us have a role to play, but if you want to influence masses and affect real politics, you need someone who has the talent to command a mass audience and the dedication to put the information on the radar. Beck has done that with the most important intelligence of all: knowledge of the enemy.

So that’s why I’m defending Glenn Beck the broadcaster. I’ve devoted twenty frustrating years to revealing who the left is and what they do, while conservatives have continued to pretend that leftists are simply confused liberals. No they’re not. They’re malicious, and calculating and devious, and smart. And Glenn Beck is helping Republicans and those conservatives who will listen to understand that.

Now to the political part of our discussion. Let me begin by saying I don’t see that part of the discussion has any relevance to Beck. He is not a politician and he’s not running for office. He’s a voice – and an important one, but he competes with other voices and has no organizational base of power.

It’s a big difference. A politician holding Beck’s views could very well present them in the moderate manner you desire. Consider Barack Obama who certainly empathized (to use his word) with a rank anti-American racist named Jeremiah Wright, with an anti-American, unrepentant terrorist and small “c” communist, Bill Ayers, and with a big C communist Van Jones. So when one is talking about political style – as it appears to me you mainly are – one is not necessarily talking about political content.

I will agree that it is a fair comment that Beck has something of a random walk in him – though not as random as you seem to be suggesting – and could wind up in places that would make me uncomfortable. Foreign policy is one such area. But by his own admission Beck is relatively new to politics and is learning. Cut him some slack. In any case – and to repeat — he’s not a politician; no one is being asked to vote for him and put power in his hands. If he veers into directions that you’re not happy with, it’s still just about ideas. Argue with him. Don’t ban him.

I couldn’t disagree with you more about the talk-and-Fox complex as you put it that Roger Ailes has created. Far from marginalizing Republicans it is the most energetic, dynamic and expansive part of the conservative movement.  Or is it your view that the decline of the leftwing network news operations has no positive impact on conservative prospects? In fact, the party identification poll numbers for Republicans are currently rising right alongside and in step with (and because of) the rising Fox ratings. Thank you Roger Ailes.

I like Norm Coleman. I supported him for Senator, showcased him at my events, and I’m unhappy that he lost. That said, he was a moderate Republican senator with whom I disagreed on several important issues but who also took courageous stands on several others. Politics is a complex business and I understand that he was elected in a liberal state and therefore cut him the same slack I would cut Mitt Romney for the same reasons. Politics is the art of the possible.

Coleman lost by the way, because an egotistical Republican maverick split the conservative vote. If Norm had 10 or so of the 200,000 votes that the other guy siphoned off from Republicans he would have won. My remark about Franken was directed to the fact that we do not pulverize their radicals they way they do any Republican who is effective. We do not understand the art of political warfare and they do.

I am a big tent Republican and also one who believes that it takes many different role players to win political battles. Bush allowed himself and the war effort and the Republican Party to be destroyed because wouldn’t defend himself. That doesn’t mean I think Bush should have left his presidential perch and gotten down dirty with the saboteurs in the Democratic Party – Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Nancy Pelois, Jack Murtha etc. etc. Bill Clinton never went on the attack in defense of himself but he did send his hatchet men, Carville, Begala, Blumenthal and co. to do it for him. Where were Bush’s spear-carriers?

Your chief political argument is that Limbaugh, Palin and Beck are albatrosses around the Republican neck: “I challenge you to notice that all three of these people repel and offend many millions more Americans than they inspire and attract.” This is rodomontade David. Where is your evidence? You think the 20 million people that listen to Rush have no impact on Republican election prospects? You think there are 20 million anti-Republican voters who can’t distinguish between a broadcaster and a political candidate? In my view – speaking from reports by friends who were actually running McCain campaigns — the phones of Republican headquarters began ringing off the hook when Palin came on board and gave them something to fight for.  (And just between us, Palin didn’t leave office because she was incapable of governing – all the evidence points in the other direction – but because the Democratic attack dogs set out to kill her politically with bogus ethics charges, the way they took down Gingrich and DeLay).

Your political questions – e.g., do I think Medicare costs need to be cut? – are all policy questions. This should be a discussion about politics not policy. The battle to stop Obama from ramming through a socialist health care system is one that Sarah Palin is leading. That’s the fact. If you don’t want Obama care, she’s the most potent force standing in its way. Do I think that government rationing of health care leads to the equivalent of “death panels?” Of course they do. And calling them that – even though at this stage they’re more of a goal than a reality – was brilliant politics. The Republican Party needs more of this not less.

You want to know whether the 9/12 protesters are new to politics. I take it that this means you think that dedicated conservatives will vote for Republicans whenever there’s an election and so we need new voters and can ignore the old ones. Actually, conservatives have a tendency to stay home when a McCain is running, and that’s when we lose. We won in 2004 because of the gay marriage issue (big Democratic mistake) not in spite of it.

You know, the very arguments you make against Palin were made against Reagan, and look what happened. All the same, I don’t take the position – in case you think I did –that what we need to win in 2012 is a holy roller of the right. I’m a pragmatist when it comes to elections. I want to see the lay of the land, the way the candidate conducts himself (or herself), the climate – and after that I’ll make an educated guess.

Let me close by saying your self-doubt is endearing. I’m with you. I can’t foresee the future anymore than you or anyone else can. Consequently a little humility is in order for all of us. So, how about easing up on Beck and giving him the benefit of the doubt?

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  1. Janet permalink
    September 26, 2009 6:30 am

    You’ve given me more than enough to dwell on for weeks to come, just as you’ve done for many when hosted by Glenn Beck. And you should have included the platform provided you by Glenn as another reason for “easing up” on him. I, one of many, love Glenn’s passion just as I’ve come to love yours. I don’t know how Mr. Frum will feel about your “letter”, but from me, Thank you.

  2. jbtrevor permalink
    September 26, 2009 7:01 am


    I can’t help but sense of Mr. Frum (from his words, yours and others about him) that eerie skin crawl I get when I see the face of elitism; let’s hope that’s not it.

    • Fred permalink
      September 26, 2009 8:48 am

      Your comment is right on. “Elites” on both sides are doing us damage and only speak to eachother.
      Beck instead speaks to real people.

  3. Samuel Munnerley permalink
    September 26, 2009 7:38 am

    Brilliant dissection of an argument and so gently artful too. I know the libs abhor reason, but it is not the best friend of many republicans. Prof. Horowitz is a counter example to the false dictum “Those who can, Do, those you can’t, Teach.” Instead he is a marvelous exemplar of the solid truth, “Those who can, Do, those who understand, Teach”. Watching Horowitz on TV is good, reading him is great. I had better start reading.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 26, 2009 11:56 am

      Would that all of our kid’s teachers were the same way…

  4. September 26, 2009 9:32 am

    Glenn Beck’s is a voice I want to hear, along with Rush Limbaugh, and Mark Levin. Each has a different approach to dealing with and presenting political issues. Each approach has merit. While I’m far from new to the arena of politics, I learn something from these men every day. And, frankly, I am impressed that they can daily prepare television and radio shows worth listening to. Ask yourself, “Could Barack Obama speak contemporaneously from one to three hours each and every day and maintain an audience willing to tune in?” I don’t think so.

    For conservatives and Republicans, the task ahead does not require us to be overly concerned about who will be the leader of the Republican Party in 2012, it is to encourage a vast population of voters to stop sitting back and allowing the media and Democrats to control the agenda and government. Fortunately, we are witnessing an astounding awaking of the electorate.

    Like many others, I suppose, my skin crawls at the thought of Glenn Beck expressing enthusiasm for Hilliary Clinton. On the other hand, John McCain certainly did nothing for me. That said, it becomes the classical case of the lesser of two evils.

    Rather than worry about the future standard bearer of the Republican Party, let’s clean house in The Congress in 2010.

  5. politicalmoxie permalink
    September 26, 2009 9:57 am

    Dear Mr. Horowitz,
    I had viewed Glenn Becks’ show as political theatre or I did until 9/5/2009. That night, as I walked into my kitchen, the TV was on and you were speaking. I knew you, et al. I had missed most of the interview, so I taped a repeat of the show and truthfully, forgot about it. Several nights later, suffering insomnia, I started to watch taped shows. The interview with you was eye-opening.
    I did not vote for Obama and thought I knew why. I thought I knew who you were. Now, because of that interview, I “KNOW” why I did not vote for Obama and I “KNOW” who you are.
    I still have that tape and I have shown it to relatives and friends. I think I would have been far more confrontational with Mr. Frum in the challenging article you wrote. However, as my Grandmother would have advised, it is better to have a person walk away wondering “if they had been told off”. My Grandmother also told me who you were and I’ve said, out loud, “Thank you Grandmother”. I am sure I have heard her whisper, “Thank you for paying attention.”

  6. Highball permalink
    September 26, 2009 10:12 am

    Stunning, I’m breathless in the face of David Horowitz’s defense. Frum is a cork-headed elitist who can’t fathom the danger of progressive militancy. His appearance on Bill Moyers’s Journal, a line-up of academic and cultural radicals, was illuminating. Beck’s crash course in how the left bores from within is absolutely the venue we need to peel back the layers of radical leftist perfidy. David Horowitz, being the godfather of all who recognize how serious the threat is, can guide the investigation into little known areas for the broadcasters to highlight. Beck, a jovial goofball in many respects, is as deadly serious as David is and is an entertainer primarily. Freedom of speech brings out the totalitarian venom, which runs cold in the Left’s hate speech. When I see The Nation magazine’s ideologues so prominent on MSNBC, their radical marxist agenda so benignly presented, I wish Beck would highlight some of their abhorrent articles such as their celebration of the 150th anniversary of the publication of Karl Marx’s “Communist Manifesto”. I would like Beck to continue with his well researched investigations and take on some aspects of Friedrich Hayek’s work such as his “The Intellectuals and Socialism” , “Why I am not a Conservative” and “The Road to Serfdom”. Finally, Beck should read Ludwig von Mises, particularly “The Anticapitalist Mentality” and the incredible insight it reveals about our present situation. Keep going David, you have been an inspiration beyond what you can know.

  7. Stan permalink
    September 26, 2009 10:23 am

    The ongoing debate between David Frum and David Horowitz piqued my curiosity about Frum’s new (though perhaps now not so new) website. I had occasionally read his blog postings at NRO but never really had sufficient interest to explore his new site — until now.

    What struck me about it was the politics of the great majority of the commenters, which could hardly be called conservative by any standard. I looked at some of the site’s official content, in particular one appalling hatchet job of a review of George Gilder’s new book on Israel. The writer in question expressed near-hostility to Israel, or at least Israel’s more uncompromising defenders, in unambiguously LEFTIST language. Most of the commenters agreed, more or less, with the article.

    Is this Frum’s idea of a “big conservative tent”? The kind of audience a writer has managed to cultivate is telling. In Frum’s case, it tells more than perhaps he might wish.

  8. Nancy Williams permalink
    September 26, 2009 10:25 am

    It is refreshing to hear someone who gets it! I think that Glen Beck and his staff do a good job of trying to research people and organizations he is speaking about. He has very informed guests like yourself. I enjoy the fact that people are LISTENING!

  9. Smit permalink
    September 26, 2009 11:58 am

    David, you are the best! Thanks for fighting for us. Beck is educational. I don’t read Frum or Brooks any more. They don’t represent conservatives.
    I took my daughter to see you at a local Reagan dinner a couple of years ago. She is now married to a hanging off the left coast liberal but he is a good man and she will return to her conservative roots.

  10. Marylou permalink
    September 26, 2009 11:59 am

    I’ll take this moment to share my appreciation of your (our) “big tent” approach to the War for the hearts and minds of people.

    I have been enjoying the NewsReal blogosphere, am a newcomer to blogging but certainly not to the political scene and in fact was heavily involved in “organizing” back in the day. Basically, we were rabble-rousers. Stirring things up was our game. Blogging here is really fun because I have very few I can share with at this point.

    I, like so many others, had a turn-around and came to see the alarming destructiveness of our generation. Now, as a person who loves and embraces political and social philosophy — the discussion thereof, I am able to benefit from the Big Tent you are promoting and I hope others will also choose to promote.

    For one thing, the inclusiveness of a large umbrella allows me, a Christian!, to continue to enjoy the company of wise-thinking (but not as wise yet as God himself! in my opinion) atheists, agnostics and just plain everything elses, or unstateds, and even I note some fellow believer (Christians) as well in this blog community.

    I am loving the discussions and just want in closing to endorse the concept and the wisdom of Unity. This was adopted by the left in my experience in the early 1960’s. Stokely Carmichael, Black is Beautiful was Stop scrapping amongst yourselves. Let’s stick together and attack our common enemy instead.

    I observed other sociological groups bury their differences in order to be more effective. It’s a no, duh! if we really care, and We Do. Where’s your pride? Where’s your class? Where are your brains?

    So thank you for enlarging your tent so we can all gain strength to promote, protect and defend our wonderful Constitution (that I believe was God’s provision) and the Freedom we (I believe — though I know it’s invisible, can’t be proved…it’s just there. In my heart, where I know things) can enjoy here in this great country. Can enjoy, depending on our choices.

    Not only do I believe in Jesus, I have not closed the door on the Great Conspiracy theory….but there seems to still be room for me to express myself here though on these two points there seems to be some dissension with the authors and many other bloggers.

    p.s. Eric Hoffer got it right, if I am understanding him correctly, having only skimmed his material. The True Believers were sore. Angry and acting out against the very country that gave them birth, prosperity (if they could appropriate it) and freedom of expression.

  11. Claire Solt permalink
    September 26, 2009 1:20 pm

    I am a Horowitz fan. It must feel good to see your cause going to a big audience. David Frumm is insufferable. He’s Canadian who got his 15 min of fame for writing “the axis of evil” for Bush. I dont think that means we have to listen to him.

    As for Beck, he’s fun to watch with his antics and new roster of guests. O don’t think he understands what the parties are and do or what can be expected of them. He dismisses them as all bad, but the changes he seeks could best be achieved through them.

  12. Julian Nagy permalink
    September 26, 2009 1:44 pm

    Frum is just another Lying Liberal Lackey of the Left, a Slobbering Socialist Shill for Obama. He is a self-proclaimed “intellectual” whose MORONIC big idea is that Repulicans will form a New Majority by imitating John McCain. (SEE LAST ELECTION.)

    His only claim to fame is trashing Sarah Palin on behalf of the other Lying Liberal Lackeys of the Left at MSNBC, CNN, CBS etc etc etc. Note that Sarah Palin’s Facebook page has 900,000 REAL CONSERVATIVE VOTERS as fans, whereas only Frum’s paid staff and leftist media hack cronies read his stupid New Majority drivel.

  13. Anneke9 permalink
    September 26, 2009 1:51 pm

    I don’t find anything conservative about Frum. In fact, I think he’s advocating for the Republican Party to become more like the Tory Party in Britain, which turned left after WWII and has never looked back. Beck’s use of the boiling frog analogy takes on a new meaning here: Frum is inviting conservatives into his open-door policy hot tub. Once you’re relaxing comfortably inside, he will turn up the heat until you’re boiled into a blanched version of your once proud conservative self, supporting Leftist philosophies under the guise of the NewSpeak word “conservative.”

    Frum wants to appeal to young voters by following the Left on social issues? What America really needs is a Verminator (hat tip: Discovery Channel) to flush liberal and socialist corruption out of the Education system. That should be one of the top three priorities for conservatives.

    I listen to Beck’s radio program faithfully. Now that he’s on Fox (v. HLN), I can’t watch the TV show because I’m at work when it’s broadcast (the rebroadcast isn’t on until 11 pm in CA, way past my bedtime). Despite Beck’s shilling for Paul during the 2008 election on HLN, I’m intelligent enough to have investigated Ron Paul’s views and found them unacceptable. This does not mean that everything Beck says and believes is without merit. In early 2008, I remember listening to Beck talk about an impending financial disaster. My husband and I looked at each, rolled our eyes, and said “That’s just Glenn going off the deep end again.” By September of 2008, Beck’s words seemed less like rants and more like smart prognostications. Whether Beck is THAT prescient or has surrounded himself with smart, savvy advisors, I can’t say. But, Beck was right in this case. Despite his showmanship, he cannot be dismissed as just another Rodeo Clown. Where was David Frum in early 2008?

  14. concernedforusa permalink
    September 26, 2009 2:33 pm

    Thank you very much for this great article.

  15. Ben permalink
    September 26, 2009 3:27 pm

    “I challenge you to notice that all three of these people repel and offend many millions more Americans than they inspire and attract.”
    Evidence to the contrary, at least in Glenn’s case:

  16. Cara Claudel permalink
    September 26, 2009 3:28 pm

    Discover the Networks is a wonderful resource. Thank you, David Horowitz.

    The far Left is an extreme danger to our lives, liberty, security, and prosperity. Glenn Beck is the only one on television or radio talking specifically about what needs to be talked about. We need at least a dozen more like him, actively digging, interviewing, investigating, and reporting.

    How can we do this? And how can we dismantle the lying mainstream media and get the relevant facts about the far Left to the American people?

    • Ben permalink
      September 26, 2009 4:00 pm

      A resource: has a section called “the Obama Files.” Also worthwhile to check out the web sites of the DSA, CCDS, institute for policy studies etc.

      • Swemson permalink
        September 26, 2009 4:55 pm

        Ben is right..

        The New Zealand blog spot is a truly great reference on the truth about the chosen one… Not having to worry about harassment from the American media and government, allows them to say whatever they want, and to produce real evidence that nobody gets to see here…

    • Marylou permalink
      September 29, 2009 10:35 pm

      Dear Clara,

      Well said! How can we do this? just keep talking and blogging and whatever else makes sense. I believe with the victory in the Congress today with the govt health insurance option not making it out of committee we have then on the run!! This is a new coalition…some Dems not going with Nancy and Harry, and instead joining some Repubs who apparently have found their brains. Rejoice! but keep moving!


  17. ThatCatGirl permalink
    September 26, 2009 4:02 pm

    Many of our friends are self employed, blue collar workers who have very little time for television/radio. Glenn Beck has a way of explaining things to them in a quick, concise manner that makes more sense to them than just about any other media personality has been able to.

    Love Mr. Beck, or hate him, he is very effective. It would behoove these detractors to look past the personality and petty bickering and build a platform that will end the conservative division that dilutes the Republican party.

  18. September 26, 2009 8:30 pm

    Glenn Beck is certainly exposing the leftist takeover as few other conservatives are willing to do. And of course he is becoming the hated “Joe McCarthy” of today becuase of his courage. But I think even more important is Glenn’s willingness to champion capitalism. Even if the far leftists were marginalized and rendered ineffective, business men and women have not known how to articulate the values of capitalism. They have always been on the defensive, and weakly at that. “When I defend myself, I am attacked,” is a truism. When I defend myself weakly, I am lost. Capitalism needs not defense, but a political sales force. Voluntary transactions, freedom of choice economically, need to be CHAMPIONED in the political realm. And that’s what Glenn Beck would do if the far leftists were neutralized.

  19. BARB2 permalink
    September 27, 2009 8:40 am

    Glenn Beck, David Horowitz, and Sarah Palin, three of my favorite Americans: Each has demonstrated passion about discovering and communicating the truth, each has shown that they care very deeply about people in general and in particular, and each has shown great courage and independence in thought and action; can’t imagine any of them following the herd. These are the very qualities we admire in our founding fathers. And now is the time we most need people like them to lead us. Thank God they’re here!

  20. September 27, 2009 9:17 am

    Beck irritates me, and he can be smarmy and over-the-top at times, but he IS passionate, and I believes he’s authentic in his own strange way. Let him talk – the more discussion the better.

  21. September 27, 2009 10:28 am

    Please use the power given to your people to stop the diseased policies from Washington.

    As one dedicated to the Guardians of Democracy, I ask you to utilize the Citizens involvement clauses of “Referenda, Recall, Initiatives and Impeachment”, set up by your forefathers to protect your rights, on the many activities in violation of your Consttitution.

    As a Canadian I’vs respected the attempts of the U.S. to stand for Democracy, World Wide, in spite of the errors and flaws.

    Obama is a “WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING”, playing the Leftist link with Islam, to destroy Western Democratic Values.

    The Left should study closely the murder, imprisonment and destruction of their movement in Iran by a Mullahcracy.

    We are also struggling against the Closet Communists and present Islamic link, trying to destroy Democracy in our country.

  22. Samuel permalink
    September 27, 2009 8:42 pm

    Let me just add another Thank You Mr. Horowitz.


  23. Marylou permalink
    September 27, 2009 10:37 pm

    I am ecstatic! because by perusing NewsReal on a nearly daily basis just to see what’s happening, I was suddenly Ready for Action at a family picnic today!! This is where the rubber meets the road.

    Gently I pursue my points. Don’t want to lose their ears.

    This is gonna be fun. Drop a line. See them suddenly stop….everything, as in What? what did you say?

    As I reflect on it this evening, I realize this is practice. We get better as we put in effort.

    THANK YOU for equipping me with salient arguments and clear foundational understanding. Yay!!

  24. September 29, 2009 3:21 pm

    It’s interesting to me that Mr. Horowitz takes offense at Al Franken calling him a racist (see part one of this argument) when he says here, and in many other places on this site, that Ron Paul is a crank – and worse (there are links in a post here titled, “Is Glenn Beck a Disciple of Crackpot Ron Paul?”, to the phrases “Anti-Semite” and “America-hater” which are being used to describe Ron Paul, that lead to pages that don’t mention him at all) – in exactly the same off-hand, “of course it’s true; everybody knows it” way.

    Until I read this, I had the utmost respect for Mr. Horowitz; that respect has been intensely diminished by these unjustified attacks on another man’s character. Perhaps Mr. Horowitz hasn’t distanced himself quite as far as he’d like to think from his radical leftist roots.

    • September 29, 2009 3:30 pm

      Browse around NewsReal for our other articles on Paul (which it appears you’ve found) and the comments sections of those articles and you’ll get further explanation for the use of these terms.

      In brief: Paul is referred to as an anti-Semite because of his foreign policy views on Israel. (Paul wants us to stop aiding Israel and become neutral in the conflict — ideas which would lead to the deaths of thousands, perhaps millions of Jews.) And an anti-American because said foreign policy views are almost identical to those of the anti-American Left.

      • September 29, 2009 9:21 pm

        If he only wanted to stop foreign aid to Israel, then you might be able to claim some justification in calling him an anti-Semite, but that’s not the case, as the most cursory glance at the man’s record and writings will show. Labeling him an anti-Semite for the resaon you give is myopic at best.

        And his foreign policy views are nowhere near those of the Left, who are perfectly content to engage in pointless wars as long as they get to be in charge (as witness the pretty much total evaporation of the left’s outrage over our misadventures in the middle east since the advent of Obama). Lumping him in with actual anti-American scum like Noam Chomsky is insulting to the intelligence of your readers.

        I stand by my point; absent justification, Mr. Horowitz’s slurs against Dr. Paul’s character are on a level with Mr. Franken’s slurs against his; I don’t see how Mr. Horowitz can pretend to be on some higher moral ground than Mr. Franken.

        • September 30, 2009 6:32 am

          It’s the end result of a policy that matters in judging it. If a policy would result in millions of Jews dying then it’s an anti-Semitic policy. Paul might not have the intent of hating Jews, he might have Jewish friends, but if his policies were implemented then Jews would die and totalitarian anti-Semites would be empowered.

          I used this metaphor on another Paul thread. It’s a racist policy to punish people for using crack more than those who use cocaine. It’s the same drug but one form is used more by blacks than by whites. Thus the end result of the law is that blacks are punished more than whites for committing the same crime. The end result is racist even if the law was not implemented by racist people. It’s the same deal with Paul, Israel, and anti-Semitism.

          Intent is irrelevant when it comes to politics. The end result is what matters.

  25. Marylou permalink
    September 29, 2009 10:26 pm

    I particularly enjoyed Highball’s contribution. Well written, interesting, full of info. My favorite part was calling DH the godfather of the rest of us. Well said!

  26. Marylou permalink
    September 29, 2009 10:44 pm

    I noticed that Time magazine, that notoriously leftist rag (Newsweek is even worse these days!!) had Mr. Beck on the cover sticking out his tongue. Fine, but they labeled him a Mad Man.

    Great! I mean how do you fight that?! but that’s the name of the game. So. Let’s sound off when and where we can.

    I do not see Glenn as angry. To me, he appears passionate, enthusiastic, but well reasoned and in control. To some, the word “mad” even denotes a certain level of insanity and I hope they are not trying to imply that but my guess is that they may be. I don’t even want to read the article. Who needs it? except of course if it’s for homework to become better able to influence others.

    I am sure glad I have “someone to talk to” even if it is in the blogosphere. Sometimes I feel like I am going to explode from frustration over things like this unfair and even nasty-spirited magazine cover.

  27. Janet permalink
    September 30, 2009 7:37 am

    Don’t fret, Glenn himself took it very well as I recall, and even said much of it was true. I didn’t read it, did see the cover. Any exposure, even Time, is welcome.

  28. Joycey permalink
    September 30, 2009 4:53 pm

    Anyone repelled by Rush or Palin or Beck is not on our side. Horowitz I am a new forever fan. Looking forward to searching through your work. Frum de dum dum.


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