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From the Pen of David Horowitz: September 26, 2009

September 26, 2009



The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination
No evidence-based attempt has been made to prove that living individuals have been adversely affected by a slave system that was ended over 150 years ago. But there is plenty of evidence the hardships that occurred were hardships that individuals could and did overcome. The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. Does its existence not suggest that economic adversity is the result of failures of individual character rather than the lingering after-effects of racial discrimination and a slave system that ceased to exist well over a century ago? West Indian blacks in America are also descended from slaves but their average incomes are equivalent to the average incomes of whites ( and nearly 25% higher than the average incomes of American born blacks). How is it that slavery adversely affected one large group of descendants but not the other? How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective – and yet so critical – to the case?

Ten Reasons Why Reparations For Blacks Is a Bad Idea for Blacks – And Racist

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  1. jbtrevor permalink
    September 26, 2009 5:27 am

    “How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective ”

    Because the Government has become the answer to everything and there is great satisfaction in getting something from the Government (for free).


  2. September 26, 2009 5:46 am

    Funny how he supports the AKAKA bill that would disenfranchise Afro-Americans in Hawaii, as that bill returns the Kamenhameha billion dollar school district to Hawaiian natives. (“bill {S381 and HR862,} which is justified in Hawaii as protection of the private multi-billion dollar Kamehameha Schools’ right to exclude African-American and other non-Hawaiian students.”)

  3. chuckwagonchuckie permalink
    September 26, 2009 6:36 am

    All of this nonsense is just another way for the Democrats to pay off their race baiting buddies, flame race and get more taxes . I have known families who came to America and could barely speak English, lived in tents and found a way to go into business, send their kids to college without being a part of the WELFARE CASTE.
    Our own GOvernment has and is creating a CASTE SYSTEM where one CASTE is so dependent on the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT for all their needs they would not work if you gave them a job.
    Middle class working people are carrying the TAX Burden to support the WASHINGTON ELITE CASTE and THE WELFARE CASTE while having their wealth removed and pushed downward and out.
    The BLACK middle class best wake up and demand change or they will wish they had in another 4 years.

  4. oldwolves permalink
    September 26, 2009 7:28 am

    I find it hard to believe that an entire race of people cannot figure out that the Democrats are simply continuing their slavery agenda against themselves. Free money from welfare if you vote for us and now free money for reparations if you vote for us. Remember, if you ever stop thinking of yourselves as victims, you may grow emotionally and stop voting for us.

    Oh, and by the way, to all the blacks who feel reparations are their due, You guys can make the check out to me. I have several relatives who fought and one died during the Civil war. You can send me a note saying how much we sacrificed for them to insure they now live in the greatest country in the world and the country that gives them the best opportunity to make something of themselves. Just ask the president if you don’t believe me.

  5. Joseph White permalink
    September 26, 2009 8:18 am

    Well said, oldwolves, I have always said that welfare, medicare/medicaid, social security are the governments way of continuing slavery. They send a person money, but not enough to survive on, and when the person tries to get a part time job, or even a full time job, the government thinks that any income is too much to get the government benefits.

    I knew a woman that had a two year old child. She worked full time, but couldn’t seem to make ends meet. When she tried to get food stamps to cover the little bit that she couldn’t cover, the government said she made too much money to get help. Their solution was to quit her job and apply for welfare, foodstamps, and WIC.

    The fact that most African Americans (And I hate that term, since Africa isn’t part of America, and we should all be one race, the human race,) live in impoverished neighborhoods, and those schools are subpar, only works to keep them trapped where they are, and in slavery to the government.

    It’s high time that we let the people in DC know that they work for us, not the other way around. Maybe then, something would get done.

  6. MMM permalink
    September 26, 2009 8:52 am

    I was only ten at the time, but it always struck me that Lyndon Johnson’s ‘Great Society’ took black Americans who had emerged from the abuses of share cropping, and labels of ‘incapable of caring for themselves,’ and were becoming middle class, and sent the entire community the message that they weren’t capable of caring for themselves, so government was going to do it. In doing so, the ‘Great Society’ initiative confounded the acceleration of the growth of the black middle class for generations.

    Of course, Barack Obama didn’t have that experience, because his elderly white grandparents worked past retirement age to keep him in the private prep school Punahoe so he could ascend the heights.

    Reparations will never sooth the anger and self-righteous hatred of whites that some blacks feel because their ancestors came on slave ships. Anyone who hangs on to that much hatred and anger will never let it go because it gives them justification for other negative behaviors. As long as the black leadership of America nurtures black hatred of whites, they will retain a type of authority and power for some black Americans that will keep black Americans from achieving what they are capable of as independent, thinking human beings. It is in the interest of the current president and his party to foster hatred of white America so they can retain power, but it is not in the best interests of the country, or black Americans economically, socially, or spiritually.

    The only up-side; Reparations would probably have been cheaper than the bailout, and it’d be history. It could be that reparations will not pass in this administration: It’s too valuable an tool to abandon it.

  7. Frank Dahl permalink
    September 26, 2009 9:29 am

    Reparations have been already paid by the blood and lives of the union soldiers during the Civil war.which set the slaves free

    • Glenn Reynolds permalink
      September 27, 2009 5:50 am

      Obviously you’re unaware that African Americans spilled their blood on the battlefield as well, and unaware that the war was fought to rejoin the Union. Don’t worry, you’ll learn that in 6th Grade Social Studies…

      • Swemson permalink
        September 27, 2009 12:00 pm

        SO WHAT ?

        As if the fact that some blacks fought and died too, negates the fact that hundreds of thousands of whites fought and died for the cause…

        The blacks were rightfully fighting for themselves…

        The hundreds of thousands of whites were fighting for the blacks and for their moral principles…

        What fuels your need to put down everything good that white Americans have done ?

      • In the know permalink
        September 28, 2009 11:19 am

        Yes, you will learn that. You’ll also learn that the govt. should be symbolized by a tank, 50% of tax dollars go to the military, the govt.s job is to take care of us, and the praise songs to the “One” (mmm, mmm, mmm). Thanks for the reminder that you guys went after the schools years ago. We’ll begin taking those back soon also.

  8. Paul Engel permalink
    September 26, 2009 9:35 am

    Blacks were not made slaves by Americans. They were made slaves by Muslims and other blacks and then sold to others. These “others” then imported the slaves into the US. In fact, a law was passed in the early 1800’s which prohibited Americans from bringing in slaves to the US and just before the outbreak of the Civil War a white American was hung for trying to bring in slaves. Americans did purchase these slaves when they were brought into the US.
    Slavery has been existent for a long, long time and still is in parts of Africa. Remember, Moses was a slave and so were the gladiators. Historically, if your side lost a war you could probably expect the males, if captured, to be made slaves and the females housekeepers or prostitutes.
    If blacks want reparations then they, as a group, should be willing to pay the same to the white descendants of those who were killed in the Civil War fighting to obtain black freedom.
    There is nowhere in the world that a black person is better off then they are in the US. They just finished killing about 850,000 people in a central black African nation for belonging to the wrong religion. The average life span of a native of Zimbabwe is in the 30’s; for those who haven’t fled the country. Blacks have been slain by Muslims in the Sudan and Nigeria over the fight for oil and religion. Civil wars and the accompanying slaughter has been prevalent in many of the smaller nations, especially those run by dictators etcetera, etcetera.

    • Glenn Reynolds permalink
      September 27, 2009 5:51 am

      Blacks built America.

      • oldwolves permalink
        September 27, 2009 7:08 am

        So did the Chinese , Irish, German Dutch….Why, it’s almost like a melting pot!

      • In the know permalink
        September 28, 2009 11:20 am

        You are a troll, plain and simple.

    • Joseph White permalink
      September 28, 2009 11:14 am

      Just in case nobody caught it, or has read about it. The Slaves were given reperations when they were freed. By Federal mandate, every ex-slave was given 40 acres of land and a mule to farm it.
      My thoughts are: If they couldn’t make a go of a free farm and a free mule, then that’s not my fault, and since slavery has been abolished for 160 years, heck with giving them anymore money. It’s not anyone’s fault but theirs that they can’t be successful. I lost my job and due to the economy, nobody is hiring, just yet. Do you hear me screaming about the government needs to pay me? No, you don’t.

      I don’t want to be a slave.

  9. Paul Engel permalink
    September 26, 2009 12:21 pm



    40% of black males are reputedly dropping out of high school. In these days where education counts more and more and the “undeducated” jobs are disappearing, that is bad news.
    70% of pregnant black women do not get married and become single mothers. Wait till these kids are growing up and later.
    The recent Harvard professor and police officer typifies a prevalent attitude of many older blacks of blaming whites for any problem they have. To their credit, the black governor, mayor, police chief and fellow black officers followed the truth.
    95% of blacks supposedly voted for OB. Just imagine the cries of anguish if this was reversed and 95% of whites voted for his opponent.
    I would like to make one suggestion to all of this and that is ny black who sincerely dislikes this country should be allowed to return to Africa and the nation of their choice while the shipping expenses of their goods are paid for by the US if they renounce their citizenship.
    P.S. My widowed, undeducated, farm girl mother took a job as a livein domestic when I was small. At the time probably 90% of domestics in NYC were black. I never had a problem with them or in the military and I have worked in Harlem and the black sections of San francisco without incidence.

  10. Swemson permalink
    September 26, 2009 12:22 pm

    Slavery Reparations ……….by Fred Reed

    On the Web I find that Henry Louis Gates Jr., the chairman of Afro-American Studies at Harvard, is demanding that whites pay reparations to blacks. It’s because of slavery, see. He is joined in this endeavor by a gaggle of other professional blacks. I guess he’ll send me a bill, huh?

    I feel like saying, “Let me get this straight, Hank. I’m slow. Be patient. You want free money because of slavery, right? I don’t blame you.” I’d like free money too. Tell you what. I believe in justice. I’ll give you a million dollars for every slave I own, and another million for every year you were a slave. Fair enough? But tell me, how many slaves do you suppose I have? In round numbers, I mean…say to the nearest dozen.. And how long were you a slave?

    Oh. In other words, I owe you reparations for something that I didn’t do and didn’t happen to you. That makes sense. Like lug nuts on a birthday cake.

    Personally, I think you owe me reparations for things you didn’t do and never happened to me. I’ve never been coated in Dutch chocolate and thrown from the Eiffel Tower. I’ll bet you’ve never done it to anyone. I want reparations. Kind of silly, isn’t it?

    But if we’re going to talk about reparations, that’s a street that runs in two directions. You want money from me for what some other whites did to some other blacks in another century?

    How about you guys paying whites reparations for current expenses caused by blacks? Not long ago blacks burned down half of Los Angeles, a city in my country. Cities are expensive, Hank. Build one sometime and you’ll see what I mean Whites had to pay taxes to repair Los Angeles for you. You can send me a check.

    Now, yes, I know you burned LA because you didn’t like the verdict in the trial of those police officers. Well, I didn’t like the verdict in the Simpson trial. But I didn’t burn my house and loot Korean grocers, or burn down a city.

    Over the years blacks have burned a lot of American cities: Newark, Detroit, Watts, on and on. Now add in the fantastic cost over the years of welfare in all its forms, the cost of all of those police calls people had to make, for cells and jails and security systems in department stores.

    I can’t live in the capital city of my own country because of crime committed by blacks. Toss in the cultural cost of lowering standards in everything for the benefit of blacks. See what I mean?

    Now, I’d view things differently if you said to me, “Fred, blacks can’t get anywhere in a modern country without education. We know that. We need better schools, smarter teachers, harder courses, books with smaller pictures and bigger words. Can you help us?”

    I’d say, “Hallelujah! Hoo-ahh! Not just yes, but hell yes. Let’s sell an aircraft carrier and get these folks some real schools and get them into the economic main-stream.’ I’d say It partly because it would be the right thing to do, and partly because I’d like to add you guys to the tax base.

    The current custodial state is expensive. I’d just love for blacks to study and learn to compete and stop burning places. But is it going to happen? You may not believe it, but I, and most whites, don’t like seeing blacks as miserable and screwed up as they are.

    I spend a fair amount of time in the projects. Those places are ugly. It’s no fun watching perfectly good kids turn into semi-literate dope dealers who barely speak English. It just plain ain’t right. But, Hank, what am I supposed to do about it? I can’t do your children’s homework. At some point, people have to do things for themselves, or they don’t get done. Maybe it’s time.

    I’ll tell you what I see out in the world, Hank… I think blacks are too accustomed to getting anything they want by just demanding it. True, it has worked for over half a century. Get a few hundred people in the street, implicitly threaten to loot and burn, holler about slavery, and sadly the Great White Cash Spigot turns on.

    Thing is, whites don’t much buy it any longer. Most recognize that what once was a civil-rights movement has become a shakedown game. Few people still feel responsible for the failings and inadequacies of blacks. Political correctness keeps the lid on — but everyone knows the score. Which scares me, Hank.

    On one hand, blacks hate whites and incline toward looting and burning. (The whites you hate are the ones who marched in the civil-rights movement. Ever think about that?)

    On the other hand, whites quietly grow wearier and wearier of it. Not good, Hank.

    On the third hand (allow me three hands, for rhetorical convenience), blacks keep demanding things As I write, you demand reparations for slavery. Blacks in Oklahoma (I think it was) want money for some ancient race riot.

    Other blacks reject the Declaration of Independence. Blacks in New York hint broadly at burning and looting over a trial, yet more demand the elimination of the Confederate flag, and the federal equal opportunity apparatus, which means blacks want to sue Silicon Valley for not hiring nonexistent black engineers. That’s a lot of demanding for one month, Hank.

    What happens if whites ever say, “No”?

    Now, how about you? You’ve got a cushy job up there at Harvard, and you can hoot and holler about what swine and bandits whites are. I guess it’s lots of fun, and you get a salary for it to boot.. But don’t you think you might do blacks more good if you told them to complain less and study more?

    For example, if you want blacks to work in Silicon Gulch, the best approach might be to find some really smart black guys, and get them to study digital design ~ not Black Studies (as you teach). That’s how everybody else does it. It works. Then blacks wouldn’t feel left out, and racial tensions would decline. Sound like a plan?

    Just out of curiosity, how many hours a week do professors of Afro-American Studies spend in the projects, encouraging poor black kids to study real-life sho-nuf subjects?


    Fred Reed was a police reporter for one of the large Washington newspapers He now writes a column which can be googled ~ “Fred on Everything.”

  11. September 26, 2009 12:57 pm

    I still see the racism directed toward Black Americans by this blogs comments You would not know how this affected an entire race of people unless you had been black American what gives you the right to judge how it is to be black in america for generations whites and other races have had strong family ties and because of slavery a lot of blacks like me suffer for that from generation to generation because things were passed down that were not positive to the black culture My family in many different ways was a broken family because of this thing called slavery everybody would like to buryit in the past but it still happened and there were and still not so positive effects from it to this day in the black community we were a broken people thats why you still see some blacks that are still broken and not able to get ahead because of some of the psychological effects from past slavery it passed on painfully from one generation to the next so before you people go judging black people get your facts straight. some of your comments are very offensive.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 26, 2009 4:14 pm


      Some people see gremlins… so what… your perception of this issue is both biased, and historically incorrect…

      Slavery, as horrible as it was, has been over for 144 years.. stop whining about it and go make something out of your life…

      It might help you if you’d remember that 360,000 white union soldiers gave their lives to free the slaves….

      So the bottom line is that we’re sick of this shakedown racket that blacks have been running on white people for the last 50 years, and we’re not buying your crocodile tears any longer…. ESPECIALLY because the vast majority of racism that we see in America today is coming from blacks, not whites…

    • Steve R permalink
      September 27, 2009 12:55 pm

      I would say the psychological effects you speak of are those that come not from slavery, which I’m sure you never experienced, but from a broken home, no parental discipline, a poor education — evident in your writing — peer pressure not to “act white”, and a number of other manifestations of the victim psychology. And as far as any comments here offending you, regardless of what you’re being told by progressive elites and the likes of Jesse, Al, Barack, and Calypso Louie, you don’t have any right to NOT be offended. Deal with it, Honey.

  12. J Williams permalink
    September 26, 2009 1:25 pm

    After decades of liberal democratic sponsored Social Engineering and Social Justice policy and progams – Why isn’t the problem resolved? Who is it that would stand up and take notice that nothing is improving through social policy, program and justice as enacted by liberals? These are the problems not the solution.

    This minority group is suffering hardships by #1 Design and #2 Flawed personal character (embodied by sloth, self focus and hatred). And a big part of #1 is to perpetuate #2.


  13. oldwolves permalink
    September 26, 2009 1:37 pm

    I think I have an answer. Since blacks were sold into slavery by other blacks(95 %)
    And since only 3-5 % of all slaves were sold in the USA, And since most of the slaves were sold by Muslims,And since slavery eneded over 150 years ago, perhaps the ones who should pay reparations are 150 year old Black Muslims?

    Remember, the whole point of Christopher Columbus was to find a new way to the orient (China and India) because the Muslims were capturing and enslaving traders along the routes that lead there.

    Special note to Denise,
    I came from a broken home too. Instead of whining how horrible my life was I cut out the fat and moved on. Many other Blacks in America were children of children of children of children of children of children of children of children of slaves, and they somehow made good. Apparently they got past the “psychological effects from past slavery”. Perhaps your ‘psychological effects’ are being fed by the same people who keep feeding you the same load of nonsense still. Jesse Jackson, Rev Al. and the democratic party as a whole. I can’t see how Americans today have to pay for thing 150 years ago. It’s just a scam. And seeing how our new president is the King of scams you may just get your money.

    Since this country has done more for blacks than any other country in the world, how much do you think you are owed? Would 30 pieces of silver be enough?

  14. Charlie permalink
    September 26, 2009 1:44 pm

    David: Do you indeed support the AKAKA Bill? Hard for me to believe?


  15. EdwinSonnyBoy permalink
    September 26, 2009 2:07 pm

    America has been paying reparations for decades – we’ve called it ‘welfare’. It is far less expensive than putting real integration into our society. No one is at fault here – neither AfricanAmericans nor the wielders of power – we just dont know what steps will bring us to the place where racial problems are an entirely minor issue..
    .Would to God I live to see that time.

  16. Judy permalink
    September 26, 2009 3:50 pm

    You would find anything written by Dr. Thomas Sowell enlightening and thoughtprovoking. Dr. Sowell has captured the intent of the Progressive movement to enslave through self-generating government structures and social programs that do not seek to serve the population but instead serve government control and infrastructure regeneration. He is an enlightened scholar that is worth your time. He brings clarity to the Progressive movement’s true motivation and goals.

  17. Glenn Reynolds permalink
    September 26, 2009 4:18 pm

    Well, David, you present the ‘success’ of West Indians as proof of your statement, without bothering to explore. Could it be due to the fact that the British colonial system, for all its faults, in fact put into place an educational system that was far superior to the Jim Crow jokes that were called black schools in the U.S. Explore this, don’t just throw out your statement without reasoned research…

  18. Swemson permalink
    September 26, 2009 5:13 pm

    So what’s your point Glenn ?

    That America used to be a terribly racist nation that treated blacks like crap ?

    We know that… nobody’s denying that…

    What we’re talking about now is what the lower class blacks are doing with their lives today… And nobody is blaming their failure to better themselves on the fact that they’re black…

    Read Fred Reed’s piece that I posted above… This constant whining about reparations is a demand for whites to make payments, for something THEY never even did, to blacks for something that NEVER happened to them… If you’re a liberal descendant of an old southern family who’s suffering from massive amounts of guilt, then write a big check every year and donate it to the United Negro College Fund.. I don’t have that problem… my ancestors came to America while fleeing Hitler over 75 years after the end of slavery… BTW, if you give anything to the race hustlers like Sharpton & Jackson, most of it will just be spent on coke and hookers… so what bother…

    Personally I think that 95% of the blame belongs to the liberal left that created the welfare class that discourages them from getting off their asses and doing something with their lives… Most members of any group, white, black, yellow or green, would react the same way to all of those years of free handouts…

    And RIGHT THERE lies the best reason for why COMMUNISM is so destructive to every society that embraces it…

    Obama, Race Hustlers, Reparations, ACORN, Saul Alinsky… Don’t you see the common thread ?

    • Glenn Reynolds permalink
      September 27, 2009 6:04 am

      My point was quite specific, in response to a rather broad claim made by David. In addition to the specific comment that I made, one might add in the fact that Slavery was abolished within the British Empire in 1833, rather than 1865 in the U.S.

      On a second note, forget the reparations issue. It’s like the Truther movement. It’ll stay on the radar, but never go anywhere, so you don’t have to worry. David keeps hammering away at the issue, wasting ink and taking out ads opposing reparations – it’s worth than Lou Dobbs commenting incessantly about the Truthers. Take a deep breath, folks, and relax. Alinsky’s long gone, too. David kept hammering away about his prefatory remarks about Satan, on and on and on. Silly and embarrassing, actually. And as far as ACORN goes, I say pull all their funding, and pull all the federal funding for U.S. corporations that do business overseas. The latter funding played a role in an earlier stage of capitalism, but now it simply serves the function of sending most of our middle class manufacturing jobs overseas. If you want ‘blacks’ to work, the jobs have to come from somewhere. Until jobs return, you can bet that the economy will continue to be fraught with vulnerability, and be run by people like Ken Lay, Allen Stanford, Bernie Madoff and the rest of them. These people are destroying lives (and American capitalism, in fact), but are generally given a green light by the FPM crowd.

      • Swemson permalink
        September 27, 2009 12:08 pm

        Well that’s a nice big steaming pile of bulls~*t…

        Every word you just wrote proves what your just another ignorant race-baiter trying to shake us down…

        We’re sick of that crap, and we’re not buying it anymore…

        So stop whining and go get yourself a real job…

        ( There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch )

      • In the know permalink
        September 28, 2009 11:33 am

        My, my, my. You are full of yourself. I’ll make you a deal. I will pay every surviving former slave 1 billion dollars in punitive damages. Lets define former slave- Lived as a slave in the Confederate States of America. There. problem solved. Not one other person has a claim to reparations. Help me understand this statement “The latter funding played a role in an earlier stage of capitalism, but now it simply serves the function of sending most of our middle class manufacturing jobs overseas. If you want ‘blacks’ to work, the jobs have to come from somewhere.”. The majority of unemployed “blacks” are only qualified for manufacturing jobs? Hmmmmm…I disagree. Also, advise me about this Ad Hominem “Until jobs return, you can bet that the economy will continue to be fraught with vulnerability, and be run by people like Ken Lay, Allen Stanford, Bernie Madoff and the rest of them. These people are destroying lives (and American capitalism, in fact), but are generally given a green light by the FPM crowd.”. Really? Did you know that the exact ponzie scheme Madoff ran is now in use by the Dept. of the Treasury? It’s being used to sell the toxic assets from the ridiculous TARP! Yep, way to go media and govt., ignore the guy for years, then take him down and steal his scam. RIDICULOUS is the only way to describe this government.

  19. Rich Hall permalink
    September 26, 2009 7:26 pm

    Let’s just take a deep breath, relax and take the long-term view from the point of view of suffering humanity. That’s what all this brou-haha is about, yes?
    Slavery conjures up feelings of horror, pain and oppression in our present society. Rightly so. In fact, the spread of the practice of slavery was an advance in the progress of human relations. In pre-historic times, if your people were overrun you were simply slaughtered, perhaps tortured, then slaughtered.
    Slavery created value for human life. Sure, it was degrading–but you survived!
    Then, the English outlawed it, and white Americans gave their lives by the thousands to end it.
    Some still practice slavery today, they are muslims.
    Let’s celebrate our progress as the beacon of freedom for the entire world as Americans, for the Good Lord’s sake, as well as our own.

  20. September 26, 2009 8:02 pm

    I’ve been almost enraged that the decendants of union soldiers who died freeing the slaves have suffered emotional stress from continued payments to decendents of blacks who they freed.
    Those union soldier decendants lost jobs because of the affirmative action law. They pay taxes in every northern state to take care of the blacks on welfare. They paid increased income taxes and other federal taxes to cover Johnson’s new deal which cost hundeds of billions. I ask when will black leaders finally say thank you to these abused citisens and pay homage in terms of money rebates to the families. A concrete movement needs to be started this effort. One could find the names of the union soldiers who died and find their decendents to gain a list of whom the black community owes finanicial assistance.

  21. September 27, 2009 9:28 am

    You know what Swenson YOu can’t argue or get a racist person to understand I supported the Bush Administration and I know that there are blacks that take advantage of the welfare system and there are whites who do it but never in my life have I seen so many racist people condemning and judging people based upon the skin color the statistics that you guys are presenting does not represent the innocent blacks as a whole I could care less about any reparations thats not the point I am taking about the racial undertone of this forum I don’t like people who scam the system and I don’t like rascist people such as some of you in this forum it disgust me and I’m sure others some of these issues are an excuse for some of you to pour out your racist bile hope you guys ain”t Christians cause Jesus loves every race it is the individual and heavens gonna have every race some of the people in this forum might be undercover racist be careful of what you read cause some of it sounds like nazi stuff about how inferior one race is to the next by the way my family consist of every nationality. I am not worried about it and don’t need to whine cause I respect and love everybody hates not in my heart can’t say that for some of the people in this forum hope you guys get therapy for it.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 12:37 pm

      Maybe if you had stayed in school you would have learned about an incredible new development called punctuation. That may be the singe worst rambling exhibition of ignorance yet to appear on this blog….

      Your shake down scam is over…

      You’re just another pathetic whiner looking to blame someone else for your own failure….

      Geeze… Talk about the pot calling the kettle black (forgive the pun)

      We’re not the racists, you are…

    • In the know permalink
      September 28, 2009 11:38 am

      Perhaps her keyboard is not working? If it weren’t for you white devils it would be!

  22. September 27, 2009 9:34 am

    Swenson on the issue of me making something of myself Not that it is any of your business I am a minister of the Gospel You don’t know this black woman from adam cause I am black i guess you think i am on welfare WRONG Go find a church and get saved. and learn how to love others for a change This black person is educated tooo. Swenson so you need to stop whining

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 12:44 pm

      Wow.. a minister of the gospel, the oldest and least productive profession in history…

      So you’re actually pushing more than just one line of bulls*~t aren’t you… Does it ever get difficult to keep all those different lies from contradicting each other…

      Maybe you and Jeremiah Wright should get together and compare notes.. maybe you can come up with yet another corrupt scam together….

      Indeed it’s true !

      A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

      • Swemson permalink
        September 27, 2009 12:47 pm

        Oh.. and BTW:

        Anyone who lives off the coins dropped in the collection plate is indeed living on WELFARE…

        You’re no more that a beggar selling entertaining fairy tales and lies…..

  23. September 27, 2009 9:56 am

    Old Wolves thank you for your respectful comments I overcame a lot I support and believe that it takes an indivdual to overcome things I’m thank ful for your input it’s encouraging I just don’t like some of the comments that kinda judge a whole race of people cause certain racial slurs are when others think that black people are trying to take advantage of a country many of us love and given our lifes for three of my relatives were tuskgegee airmen many served in the armed forces many blacks in this country are mixed with every nationality it is hurtful to see that some hate blacks because of a few people who make wrong choices this is racism to me it is no different from what hitler tried to do to the Jewish people who are my people as well when is all of this racism gonna stop on both black and white sides thats my point. I am Pro Isreal

  24. jbtrevor permalink
    September 27, 2009 1:24 pm

    Denise, I agree with your comment above that it takes the individual to overcome things; but unless they know it can be better it’s hard to aim for an unknown goal…you seem to achieved a lofty goal.

    Anyway, I’d be interested in your view of a couple of things.
    1. I live in VT. which is <2% non-white, <1% black and the most left-leaning state in the country (also the highest taxed-ugh). Anyway, there is a group here that spends a great deal of time helping the downtrodden. They help refugees from Bosnia, Somalia & the Sudan by providing them housing, healthcare, education, job-training, etc. Our farm and hotel industry works diligently to assist legal and illegal foreign laborers to assist in their businesses.

    When I have suggest using some of the funding + programs to assist minority youth/families in our American inner cities (I have specifically requested assistance for young black men) I am met with ridicule.

    Have you encountered such resistance and what did you do about it…any suggestions?

    2. If you commented on what David Horowitz said (his words above) I missed it, but would be interested in hearing your opinion of what he said.

    Thanks & welcome…

    • September 27, 2009 3:48 pm

      Julie I have encountered this there are federal grants for various projects if you have the right connections in your community. I do believe David Horowitz comments are accurate to a certain degree it’s just some of the comments had a racial undertone that kinda got under my skin that’s all I am not offended by the truth I am just offended when someone judges people based upon skin color if something is true I stand behind it.

      • jbtrevor permalink
        September 27, 2009 5:26 pm

        Thanks Denise,

  25. September 27, 2009 2:13 pm

    Interesting that some folks can use accurate punctuation, foul language and demeaning dialog all at the same time. This suggests emotional issues are not isolated to decendents of slaves. Thus, this very blog posting provides statistics that shows Horowitz’s notes are factual and not simply personal interpretations. Your stats are here. Thank you.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 4:34 pm

      Another religious loon proves my point…

      And why is it that I can’t challenge your beliefs or openly say that I think all forms of religion are absurd, destructive and in many cases evil ?

      Is it because YOUR ideas happen to be SACRED, and mine aren’t… Well talk about arrogant bigotry…

      The common thread that ties all of you religious kooks together is that you DEMAND that everyone be RESPECTFUL of your particular beliefs…

      SO if you think I should show some respect for your centuries old superstitions and beliefs, don’t hold your breath…

      The ONLY ideas that are worthy of respect are RATIONAL ideas that benefit mankind in some way…

      Religion isn’t rational, and it’s done far more harm to mankind over the centuries than any of good you may perceive it to have done.

  26. September 27, 2009 3:03 pm

    my money is not made off the church not one red cent off of church funds I won’t take anything I give to the church as much as I can hate monger swenson I work a Job that probably make more than you

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 6:03 pm

      Thanks… you continue to prove my point with everything you write…

      Just because I think religion is just a silly superstition, that makes me a hate monger ???

      Almost nobody who’s religious, simply disagrees with my opinion, they all HATE ME for having such an opinion…

      DO you HATE everyone who disagrees with you on other subjects ? Of course not..

      The reason you hate, and are always so threatened by atheists, and by others such as gays, is because you’ve never really been 100% secure in your belief systems.

      Inevitably, as you go through life you see horrible things happen, which causes you to wonder, how could a loving god possibly allow such a thing to happen ? There are contradictions everywhere, and inevitably you have doubts, because down deep, beneath all your religious brainwashing, you still have a rational mind that’s not comfortable with all of religion’s simplistic answers and fairy tales..

      But you persist in believing them, because the possibility that you’re wrong, and the idea that all of the time you’ve spent on your knees in prayer was wasted, is simply too terrifying for your fragile egos to deal with…

      I think the reason for your hatred and venom against atheists like me, is that deep down, something is telling you that we might be right….. and that really would make you like idiots wouldn’t it…. What even scarier is the idea that when you die, you’ll just be dead… pushing up the daisies ! Do you really think the terrorists are getting their 76 virgins ? If not, what makes you so sure that there is such a thing as heaven or hell ????

      I pity your plight, but deep down, I really don’t care… I’m too busy living my own life, working to better myself and my family, and working to solve problems or to be artistically creative, because that’s what drives me and pleases me.

      But if you really want to know why I’ve become so MILITANT about my atheism, go watch a video replay of what happened on the morning of 9/11…

      THAT’S what religion, when it’s at its WORST represents to me…

      Granted your religion is nowhere near as horrific as Islam, but after 9/11, I’ve had a belly full of ALL of it, and I’ll be damned if I’ll show any religion one iota of respect from this day on !

      Thanks to Richard Dawkins !

      • oldwolves permalink
        September 28, 2009 6:49 am

        “Just because I think religion is just a silly superstition, that makes me a hate monger ???”


        No sir, it makes you a bigot. Others in this forum have noticed your abhorrence toward anyone of a religious belief, even accusing me of being a religious fanatic, because I disagreed with you on a previous subject. Apparently, when it comes to religion, you have more issues than time magazine. Even though I disagree with much of what Denise is saying she is simply stating her point of view. You however have fixated on her religion, feeling you have some right to insult religion in general. I picture the veins in your forehead about to implode as you rant. Please see a doctor. Or perhaps the clergy for some much needed council-ling.

  27. September 27, 2009 3:05 pm

    Im sad for you swenson get a life get saved

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 6:34 pm

      Get saved ?

      From what…. ?

      I have a perfectly rational mind, I live a fruitful and happy life, and I have absolutely zero use for witch doctors…

  28. September 27, 2009 3:11 pm

    Dr. Cutburth Good Point

  29. September 27, 2009 5:47 pm

    Swemsom is one of those folks who shout at religious people saying we are all kooks, nuts, and all sorts of things. Unfortunately he suffers from some emotional stress about religion. Horowitz brought up the issue about whether descendants of slaves suffer from some emotional stress. In the process we find Swemsom attacking religion. One could believe Swemsom has an emotional issue, or sort of a phobia or mainia when he reverts to attacking religious people when that is not the issue of Horowitz’s blog post. Understand Swemsome you need to go to more stress and work defending your attacks on religion. Tell us Swemsome you are black and a descendant of slaves. I think not. If you are not, then you have only proven Horowitz point, that there are many examples of people suffering from some emotional issues who are not black. I have discovered that a very large percent of blacks are religious. Its black hate sales folks that are hurting blacks today.
    For the record it was a very small percent of blacks that died in the Civil War. It was at least 90% whites. So those new age white hating blacks need to recognise they may get a bill from decsendants of whites who died freeing them unless they drop the issue. I will encourage this cause.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 6:32 pm


      I don’t go around shouting at religious folks… all I do is speak my mind when they shove their crap in my face… and that’s exactly what happens here whenever one of these pinheads starts caterwauling about how only prayer to god will protect us from radical islam…

      There are millions of silent atheists like me who have just been chuckling to themselves about religious nonsense every time we confront it… but for me, 9/11 changed all that, and I no longer keep it to myself….

      But don’t worry, I’ll never cause you any harm, because to me, religious folks, for the most part (other than the Muslims) pose no danger to me… Since most of the “blue laws” have gone away, and since I’m not a female, or gay, nothing you say or do really has any effect on me whatsoever..

      So enjoy living the way you wish… I most certainly DO respect your right to think and behave as you like…. as long as you don’t try to force your ideas on ME…..

      But don’t expect me to keep quiet any longer when you parade around waving your cross in my face..

      George Carlin had a great routine about the 10 Commandments.. after discarding several of them for being redundant, he added a new one which I truly wish all of you would follow…. it goes like this:


  30. September 27, 2009 6:02 pm

    Thanks Doctor at least if I don’t agree 100% with every thing everyone says there are still respectful people like you in this dialog thanks for being kind and on some subjects people can agree to disagree and still respect each other. I’m really sad for Swemson. I believe the reason that there were not a large percentage of blacks that did not participate in the civil war was because there were a lot of racism in the country during that time blacks were not really allowed to join the military because of segregation and some soidiers did not want to fight beside them. While we are on the subject what about the American Indians I believe that they were cheated out of a lot doesn’t America really belong to them?

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 6:08 pm

      There you go with the race card again…


      But never throw away the card… and……

      Don’t leave home without it !

  31. September 27, 2009 6:09 pm

    Swemson what if you are wrong? I would not want to take the chance if I were you because if you are wrong that means you are going to burn in hell for not believing in God.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 6:53 pm

      That’s hysterical…

      I take precautions against hurricanes, and I wear a seatbelt when driving to protect myself against car accidents…

      Why… because those possibilities are REAL…

      Now this may surprise you, but my mind is 100% open on the subject… I’ve been involved in a 6 year debate on the subject with one of my dearest friends who happens to be an evangelical christian. And I’ll answer you the same way I answer him:

      Show me one single iota of empirical, rather than anecdotal evidence, that points to the existence of a god, and I’ll definitely consider your thesis, but absent that, there’s no way I’m going to shape my life to prepare for something which is SO unlikely as to be laughable…

      But…. how’s this for irony…?

      I don’t have to worry about it anyway, because I just happen to live my life according to the same principles that religious people do…. So if there is a god and a heaven, when I arrive at those pearly gates, I’m sure that he’s going to judge me not by how much or how little time I’ve spent on my knees in prayer, but rather by my virtues and behavior throughout my life…

      Ever hear the slogan “ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS” ???

      • oldwolves permalink
        September 28, 2009 6:58 am

        “Show me one single iota of empirical, rather than anecdotal evidence, that points to the existence of a god, and I’ll definitely consider your thesis, but absent that, there’s no way I’m going to shape my life to prepare for something which is SO unlikely as to be laughable…”

        It’s never about ’empirical evidence’ Swemson. It’s about faith. The humble belief that man is not the end all of everything. I’m agnostic. Which pretty much means I believe in god but not religion.

        Man created religion. Man is imperfect so logically , religion is imperfect. But faith if perfect. Faith allows for hope. And hope is what keeps man going. So you can laugh at the faith of others, but it’s their hope in mankind that allows people like you, to freely speak your bigotry.

        • Swemson permalink
          September 28, 2009 10:56 am

          Stop parroting back the same tautologies that your sunday school teachers and priests started hammering into your head when you were still too young to think on your own…

          I don’t get angry at people for being religious, & it’s certainly not the people that I hate… but I do hate the religion, because IMHO, it is the direct cause of the majority of the misery that mankind has suffered since his beginnings…

          Is an intelligent person “bigoted” towards people with lesser mental gifts ?

          Frankly I don’t care what you choose to believe… So NO I’m not bigoted towards any of you…

          If anything, I pity you…

          • oldwolves permalink
            September 28, 2009 11:17 am


            a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

            Websters dict.

            “I don’t get angry at people for being religious, & it’s certainly not the people that I hate… but I do hate the religion, ” WTF?

            People are religion!

            I don’t hate fish, And it’s certainly not their scales I hate…But I hate anything living in water!


            Intelligent person? Bridge for sale!

            • Swemson permalink
              September 28, 2009 11:49 am

              People are religion ?

              What a pity…

              A mind is indeed a terrible thing to waste…

            • oldwolves permalink
              September 28, 2009 12:10 pm

              “A mind is indeed a terrible thing to waste…”


              After reading some of the nonsense and bigotry you propose,

              I find it rather, ‘A waste is a terrible thing to mind!’ So I’ll mind your essays less.

              Again let me state, I don’t like bullies and I don’t like bigots. And though I don’t agree with what Denise says, I’ll defend her right to say it.(Sounds familiar doesn’t it?)

            • Swemson permalink
              September 28, 2009 12:28 pm

              As I said before.. I really don’t hate you… I think your beliefs are idiotic, but I certainly don’t all all people who believe..

              Now how about you calm down, and then read slowly, with an open mind, all of your (and the other loon’s) posts and compare them to mine…

              What you’ll see, if you have the intellectual integrity to admit it, is that it’s all of you who HATE me so much… and why ? Because I disagree with your beliefs, and have the chutzpah to say it openly and honestly…

              What’s the definition of the word bigot sir?

              Not too many people have openly criticized your beliefs in the past because it’s so very politically incorrect to do so… but 9/11 changed all of that… for me at least…

              I have my beliefs, and you have yours… but yours are HOLY ?

              Of course they’re not…. you just hate me because I pose a threat to all of your pompous and sanctimonious nonsense…

              Get over it already, and grow up !.

            • Swemson permalink
              September 28, 2009 12:38 pm

              BTW Wolfie:

              You did at least finally stumble on a very important issue that we agree on 100%…

              And that’s that Denise has EVERY right to believe what she wants.

              40 years ago, I sir, put on the uniform and risked my life to defend that right of hers… and I’d still do that today..

              Indeed a great many of us may be called upon to put our lives at stake soon, in order to defend ALL of our rights to live as FREE men, in a FREE country…… and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see you on the battle front, at my side….

  32. September 27, 2009 6:12 pm

    Hey Swemson answer the question about the american Indian I am part Indian too Blackfoot as a matter of fact Well what you play the offence card cause you don’t have an answer I believe you are confused and I keep hittin a nerve you get upset

    • Swemson permalink
      September 27, 2009 7:09 pm

      Well aside from the fact that your post is unintelligible gibberish, WHAT QUESTION about the American Indians are you even asking me…?

      Sorry I can’t provide you with an answer to this, but to elaborate on my last post, my suggestion to you is that you might want to consider the possibility that there’s more than one way to arrive at the right conclusions relating to moral and ethical behavior..

      I can give you a rational reason for each and every moral and ethical value that I believe in… Some may as simplistic as saying “because it’s obviously the right thing to do”

      Other than for blaming a mostly non-existing strain of racism in all of white America, you seem like someone who would be a good neighbor… Would you reject someone from your neighborhood who lived exactly according to your moral and ethical standards just because he didn’t go to church on sundays… ?

      I doubt you would…

      But many religious people aren’t that way.. they get the willies just from the thought that someone who didn’t believe in god had moved into the neighborhood…., and that my dear lady is the most common example of pure hatred that exists in our society, and the same reason why I so frequently equate religion with racism… hating people simply because they’re different !

      That is the ultimate form of ignorance, and the very essence of evil…

  33. September 28, 2009 6:11 am

    Swemson God won’t judge you on what you do as far as your earthy works are concerned because he knows man is not perfect he will judge you based on the fact wheither or not you had accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior Jesus loved you and died for you he was the perfect sacrifice and as far as the belief that God exist or not that you have it is really dumb to believe he don’t even for your logical mind you can’t make the world exist by chance air exist but you can’t see that but you know its there especially if you were at the bottom of a pool drowning you know you need it right?

    • Swemson permalink
      September 28, 2009 10:38 am


      Besides the utter idiocy of your god fairy tales, the thing I find MOST repelling about christianity is the very idea of human sacrifice itself…

      It’s barbaric, and ignorant, and totally revolting… and yet it’s the cornerstone of your absurd superstition…

      How are you any different that the ancient Inca shamans who slaughtered children to appease the gods… ?

      It’s a positively disgusting idea..

      In case you didn’t happen to notice, we’re in the 21st century now…

      You’re an adult right ? Do you still believe in santa claus ?

      It’s time to grow up !

  34. September 28, 2009 6:23 am

    Swemson since you have no faith in nothing you cannot make something out of thin air right how does air exist swemson? How did oxygen exist? How does the atom exist? Oh to answer your question about me disliking the White race it would be kinda hard to hate the white race when my husband is white so what you said about anything doesn’t hold water. You need to Check yourself before you wreck yourself. (Check your belief system cause it got a lotta holes)

    • Swemson permalink
      September 28, 2009 10:48 am

      Oh crap…

      Now you want to have a SCIENTIFIC debate about religion…

      You can’t.. it’s a contradiction in terms…

      I’m not going to fall for that trick, and I’m not going to waste any more of my time arguing about absurdities with someone who’s obviously gone over the edge…

      Enjoy your fairy tales… Sweet dreams !

  35. September 28, 2009 6:58 am

    the comment about 9/11 has nothing to do with christianity it has to do with radical islam swemson two different belief systems and you need to stop shoving your religious beliefs on people because atheism is a religion I bet you believe nothings wrong with abortion and that would make you no better than those 9/11 hi jackers Your brothers with the ACLU is proud of you Swenson

    • Swemson permalink
      September 28, 2009 10:44 am

      Same thing…

      Different flavor

  36. September 28, 2009 7:46 am

    Horowitz’s premise for this post is correct and he is heroic in posting it. Notice it is on his own web site that he askes/allows input. He said that the black claim that reparations for blacks is due is unfounded. This is heroic as it opens the door and lets mean people in along with thoughtful people.
    1. Anyone can check statistical record to find there are lots of insane white people, and people of all colours.
    2. Successful blacks should pay reparations to the descendents of white union soldiers.
    checking the records one can find at least 95% of who died were white. Yet their descendents lost jobs caused by the affirmative action law. This was a cruel event given that most white families had no control of who gets hired. Furthermore, affirmative action gave a negitive cash flow to white families. The result is that many white poor lost money from less assitance from their family members who lost jobs because of the affirmative action law. This was followed by those same families paying increased taxes to pay for new howsing for poor blacks. This all was on top of the continued taxes to support poor blacks for decades in the northern large cities. But now the radical white hating blacks who just want to get more free money have created a big lie. If they continue the lie, there will be, and appears to be hapending, an extremely large white backlash. Hopefully, the conservative blacks, and there are many, will get them to stop their lie.
    3. Slavery inthe world existed in all of world history. No acception. The known history is at least a few thousand years. No one thought anything about it. When Romans, or Ottamans, or any others conquered an area, most losers were inslaved in some way. Thus, England, and others brought slaves to the colonies as a matter of the way life was. It is my opinion that Christ helped the blacks by letting them be brought here. This opened the door for enormous freedom and wealth gain by blacks in America.
    4. It was whites who fought the revolution. It was white Abraham lincoln who set the slaves free. It was 500 thousand white northern soliers who made Lincoln’s rule stick. Remember though Lincoln did not blame the southern soliers as they did only what they believed from thousands of years of history. He said it clearly in his gettysburg address. Though he did, after the war the government already took reparations from southern states in confication of wealth and property. The confiscation was so cruel to families who had suffered the war, that the KKK was started to make a defense against it.
    5. History shows that the inians had no legal property boundaries. The many tribes fought wars for hundeds of years before the settlers moved in. The indians butchered their rival tribes and took slaves of the women. They took white women as slaves until they were defeated. Many indians helped the white soldiers defeat the indians. They were scouts and fought along side the US Army. They did not like the ways of the wild indians. Legal land boundaries were finally drawn by US explorers Lewis and Clark and others. The second world war brought stronger rules on country boundaries. Indians have been supported financially since their loss of the indian wars. Many now have casinos, and others get money from oil and coal deposits on their reservation land that is controlled by the local tribe.
    They are not forced to become anything other than who they want to be.
    Thank you Dr. Horowitz for your opportunity for us to speek.

  37. September 28, 2009 8:48 am

    Dr Cutburth I respectfully disagree because of the fact that the blacks that were brought over to America to be slaves were forcefully brought over here against their will. with all due respect that’s just like someone burgularizing you and robbing you forcing you to pay them,then after you pay them you have to do it again. There is not one black person I know who says that their ancestors came over here to willingly be slaves on slave ships. Yes there were indentured servants but not any that came over willingly to be enslaved like the way the blacks were that was in human

    • oldwolves permalink
      September 28, 2009 10:24 am

      I was robbed and assaulted 6 years ago by 5 black youths, they were never caught.
      I was at a charity event in Harlem. I went out to my car to get some paperwork and was attacked. I was called all sorts of lovely racist remarks as my property was forcibly removed from me. My attack was not deemed ‘racial, but was termed a robbery. Here’s my point. Shall I go to every black person and tell them they owed me reparations? Shall I demand that they pay the price of someone else’s viscous behavior? Of course not. It makes no sense to demand from those who had nothing to do with the criminal act of others. Add to that a crime that took place 150 years ago and you sound somewhat crazy. Imagine if my great great great great grandchildren went through Harlem demanding reparations. They would all be put away and thankfully so. Denise, Albeit some here are somewhat crude in their dispute with you, the bottom line is that it’s over. If the Black community truly wishes to be treated equally then they have to accept the fact that their hardships were no different than any other peoples who came or were brought to America. My ancestors had to face ‘Hiring, No Irish”.

      The reason my family (On my mothers side) came to America were two of my uncles were pressed(Another form of slavery) into the British navy. One of them escaped while in NY and made his way to Tannersville NY where 18 generations of my family come from. There is a monument there showing every son of Tannersville who fought and died since the revolutionary war. One of them died during the civil war and never came home. Fair is fair Denise. I want you to send me a check for his and my families sacrifice to secure you and your family from slavery. My family has served in almost every war, myself included, for hundreds of years. As shall my sons. Our family has made the ultimate sacrifice many times and have asked for nothing. Ever. So I find the very concept of reparations a shameful and disgraceful act. And a sure way of making a bigger wedge between blacks and America. Get rid of the hyphen Denise. Tell everyone you know to get rid of the hyphens. America is one country with one people. Either join us or not. If you choose not to than don’t expect to be treated equally. I only treat Americans equally. Never Hyphenated people.

  38. September 28, 2009 6:29 pm

    Old Wolves I’m so sorry that that happened to you I do understand your point I’m trying to only point out the fact that slavery in all forms are wrong and that judging anyone including whites, blacks, jews,etc because of some bad apple’s in one race saying oh these people is bad is wrong. Some blacks believe in reparations some don’t – I personally don’t believe it would make any difference anyway because even if this was granted I have not seen anyone personally receive any money I just think it is just another political trick some people line their pockets sometimes for various causes and the community never see the difference it’s suppose to make I agree to a certain extent with you.

  39. September 28, 2009 6:38 pm

    Swemson no one can force you to believe if you don’t want to I won’t I was just giving facts I really enjoyed talking to you I hope you did’t get too angry just wanted to give you something to think about – cause you gave me something to think about but i won’t ever deny I believe in all the things that Jesus came to this earth to do for all of us he was God in the flesh. You with your logical mind gave me a lot of information about your beliefs Thanks……

    • Swemson permalink
      September 28, 2009 7:16 pm

      Thank you Denise.. that’s most gracious of you, and I truly feel rewarded for my efforts…

      The point I’ve been trying to make all along, is that there’s more than one way to arrive at correct conclusions. You say that we shouldn’t steal because god says “thou shalt not steal”.. I say that we shouldn’t steal because if everyone stole, we’d be living in pure chaos… you got there thru god’s words, & I got there through logic… the important thing is that we’re on the same page now !

      My campaign, if you could call it that, is simply an effort to point out the absurdity of hating people simply for holding different beliefs… From my 20’s thru my 50’s I kept my mouth shut simply because I had no desire to offend anyone, and because I understood how important people’s beliefs were to them… ( I was actually a philosophy major BTW) but 9/11 really did change things for me..

      When I saw what a horror those barbarians committed in the name of god, I stopped being “respectful” of ANY form of religious thought, because I saw, with my own eyes, what religious intolerance can become when taken to its ultimate extremes…

      People tend to treat their religious beliefs differently than they do their other beliefs and emotions… Nobody who loves chocolate has ever slaughtered someone who loved vanilla, but that’s not true about religious beliefs unfortunately…

      I’m not the most eloquent spokesman for my point of view in this issue… If you’d like to hear the most eloquent man I know about this issue, listen to the following brief lecture:

      I admit to being intentionally confrontational on the issue.. I’m trying to stir up the debate, not to put people down, but to help people understand that we have much more in common than that which divides us…

      The only real mistake that you make IMHO, is evidenced by your current post when you say:

      “I was just giving facts”

      Those were not facts fair lady… they were your opinion…….. no matter how deeply held. You have every right to your opinions as I do to mine… but PLEASE understand that different opinions do not justify hate…. I think I’m right on the issue, as you do.. & that’s as it should be…. but there’s one thing that I can say for certain, & that’s the fact that I’d love to have you as my neighbor !

      Peace !

  40. September 29, 2009 12:22 pm

    Thanks Swemson some folks who say they are Christians really are not when they kill people in the name of God The God I serve is a God of peace Although many profess to be true christian people they really are not. Those are the ones that say they kill in the name of God. They purposely try to give christianity a bad name. from the dark ages on others in the day we live in don’t know how to make that determination, and thats sad. True christians love everybody no matter what and if a person ever would like to be a Christian they should be embraced not hated Thank you for your kind words Swemson.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 29, 2009 2:08 pm


      A question if I may.. In your post above you say:

      “Those are the ones that say they kill in the name of God. They purposely try to give christianity a bad name.”

      I’ve always thought that the killing you refer to was NOT done in order to give christianity bad name… I think that it’s just a convenient excuse that evil people use to mask their true motives, which are usually all about gaining power over the people.

      That’s why O’Reilly and Hannity disgust me so with all their talk about the so called “war against christianity”.. The left may have disdain for religion, just as I do, but destroying religion isn’t their objective. They use it as a scapegoat, as a distraction, that helps them mask their true totalitarian intentions from the mental midgets who make up their army…

      Hitler used the jews as the scapegoats to blame for the problems that Germany suffered after WWI, and to help him take power… Bigotry and Hatred are powerfully effective tools that can be used to bring the masses together & get them to do horrible things…

      That hatred & bigotry is EXACTLY what the far left uses as a tool to mobilize the “have-nots’ into doing their bidding. People freak out when they see posters of BHO as Hitler, because they don’t understand that connection…

      Historically, while many have used religion to do good…. there have also been many, who have used religion as a tool to help them do horrible things…. 9/11 being perhaps the most vivd example of that….

      Religious people are always trying to help non-believers “find god”… Atheists don’t try to talk people pit of their beliefs.. they just go on with their lives, and perhaps wondering, on occasion, what it is that makes SO MANY people capable of being victim to the same type of mass delusion that’s been dominating peoples thought for hundreds & hundreds of years…

      Did you ever read Giorgio de Santillana’s classic, “The Crime of Galileo” ?

      I think you’ll find it absolutely fascinating if you haven’t…

  41. September 29, 2009 5:06 pm

    you know it’s very interesting in what you say about people being brainwashed or manipulated in order for others to do evil you are exactly right I do not like religious people but I do like christian people who stands up for the truth My bible says in the last days there will be some having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof from such turn away ; in other words you will know them by the fruit they produce (actions speak louder than words) as you informed me earlier and I do see the point you have made, a very very good one and swemson not all of us christians are that bad and there are some of us that agree with the points you are making and some of us who are not religious because those are what I call hypocrite christians Jesus calls them Pharisee’s Bravo I love the point that you made I will look into that book.

    • Swemson permalink
      September 29, 2009 6:32 pm


      I have only one goal and motivation in everything I write here, and that making sure that we can take back our country from this evil gang of thugs, who IMHO are deliberately trying to tear it down.. I just explained the end game, in a post I just wrote on one of the blogs from 9.27

      The title is:

      NewsReal Sunday: Pots and Kettles: Maddow and Schaeffer Call Evangelicals “Village Idiots” Who Must be Excluded from American Political Life

      And here’s a link to it…

      Look for my post towards the bottom of the page right after a short one from David Forsmark. I’ll be curious to hear what you think of it…

      Cheers !

  42. September 30, 2009 6:13 pm

    A very interesting post Swemson I enjoyed it you served in the United States marie Corp awesome because my husband was in the Marine corp as well he was a radioman for 9th comm Camp Pendleton during the time of the first President Bush his unit was one of the first one’s to participate in Desert Storm when I first met him he was also an athiest but too many things happened in our lives that he could no longer deny the fact that there is a God We have been through some interesting and unexplained things miracles in other words thats what gave me my faith I loved the blog bravo and oohrah

  43. Swemson permalink
    September 30, 2009 6:48 pm

    Thanks Denise…

    Now if I could only get you to change this:

    “he could no longer deny the FACT that there is a God”

    to this:

    “he became a BELIEVER in God just like me”

    I’d have to invite you over for dinner 🙂

    Cheers !

  44. October 1, 2009 5:03 pm

    lol Cheers, Swemson.

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