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Crackpot Chronicles: Van Jones, Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, Rorschach, the Truthers, And Me – Part II

October 5, 2009
glenn beck

Is this guy a crackpot conspiracy theorist? Only someone who knows nothing about conspiracy theorists could suggest it.

We cannot confront the fallacies of conspiracy thinking in our political culture if we do not understand it. In recent weeks Van Jones, the President’s Green Jobs Czar, lost his job because of his embrace of conspiracy thinking. More recently popular talker Glenn Beck has been smeared by his opponents as a conspiracy nut. We can only decipher these issues and win these intellectual fights if we know just what kind of thinking needs to be isolated from political life.

Click here for Part I

When we last left off our 9/11 Truther Crackpot was suggesting that surely his conspiracy theory was at least worth looking into. I had to explain why it was not:

dave small

“Surely one must look at all the evidence, if one would conclude any degree of probabilty. Arguments aside, there seems to be certain reasonable evidence that is available for inspection.”

Not really. Must I look at all the evidence presented by those who who deny the Holocaust… or promote the moon landing conspiracy… or that Obama wasn’t born in the US… or that Hitler survived WWII and now has a base on the moon… or that the Clintons murdered their political opponents… or that Islam is true and we need to wage Jihad against the US… or that Noam Chomsky’s propaganda model is accurate… or Santa Claus flies around the world delivering presents… or that David Icke’s Lizard People control the planet… or that corporations are out to enslave and imprison us… do I need to go on? Because if your conspiracy is worthy of my time then so are all the other ones.

Maybe if life was infinite I might be persuaded to invest some of my time into chasing 9/11 conspiracy theories. But alas, I’ve got more interesting things to do.

-D

southpark-911truth-org

I guess it would depend on what the implications of any available evidence would mean to those persons most effected. What does the evidence in question suggest? Does the evidence imply an isolated malfunction that needs to be corrected? Does a correction mitigate the probability that any adverse or negative impact of the subject incident in question will continue? Does any evidence imply a system malfunction that would need to be corrected, in orderthat the system work as desired? Is truth more desirable than fiction? Is justice a noble cause? Is human life valuable? Or are only the lives of people we happen to know and like important. Are we ultimately responsable for holding our government to certain standards of conduct? Do we get the government we deserve? If we ignore evidence, will “it” happen here?

Would the holocaust have happened if people had paid attention? Is such an attrocity less interesting than other pursuits?

Even nazi germany started out as a small thing..

This is when you can really start to tell that you’re talking with a True Believer conspiracy nut. (Or really a True Believer of any stripe.) If they don’t even bother to really respond to your arguments and just continue speaking THE TRUTH.

dave small

See, I’m trying to dialogue. Like most conspiracy theorists you’re only interested in monologue. You’ve got the Truth and are trying to spread it. You’ve ignored my point — that your 9/11 conspiracy theory is no different than any other conspiracy theory. The only difference is that you’ve been suckered into believing in it and are thus going to evangelize it to others.

What other conspiracy theories do you embrace? Any from my list?

-D

southpark-911truth-org

The subject at hand are the circumstances surrounding the 9/11 incidents, not conspiracies generally. One will lose sight of the subject if one generalizes. If we were dealing with “theories” I would not need to say anything. Theories are a proven hypothesis. What you mean to say is “conspiracy hypothesises”. I am not certain of what nthe truth actually is. I only know that certain evidence I’ve seen seems to be at odds with what appears to be common belief, and the “facts” that have been promulgated by the authorities. Why are you so certain of your position? What evidence leads you to your conclusion? I would like to think that our government is without fault and all is as advertized. Can someone explain to me why there is this disparity? There are other official explainations of certain events that I take issue with. One thing at a time.

It was time to cut to the chase. I needed to cut through the Truther’s diarrhea of the email and confront him on the key issue.

In Part III of “Crackpot Chronicles: Van Jones, Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, Rorschach,  the Truthers, And Me” it’s time to force the Truther to commit to the absurdity of his position.

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29 Comments
  1. Swemson permalink
    October 5, 2009 3:17 pm

    David;

    Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally…

    You mention 10 different conspiracy theories above…

    And i’m pretty sure that 9 of those are pure BS….

    Never say never…

    • October 5, 2009 3:32 pm

      Most conspiracy theories will have slivers of truth in them.

      And occasionally conspiracy theories will stumble on the truth. But the squirrel that isn’t blind will find more nuts than the one that is.

      But conspiracy theorists take leaps unsupported by adequate facts. And as someone who appreciates the scientific method I’m sure you can appreciate the danger of such thinking.

      • Swemson permalink
        October 5, 2009 5:26 pm

        Absolutely…. I’m just a little unsure of where the line is drawn between a legitimate suspicion that something is happening and a conspiracy theory….

        For example, there’s LOTS of evidence supporting the idea that JFK was caught in a crossfire, and not killed by Oswald alone.
        The fact that everyone who rejected the Warren Report, was immediately branded a conspiracy nut only adds to the evidence IMHO.. Our govt is doing the same thing today to opponents of Obummer.

        I think the birther’s are nuts about Obummer not being born in the USA, but the lengths that he’s gone to, to keep his original docs secret, do raise suspicion… Knowing how I feel about this POS, I’m sure you won’t be surprised when I say that I think they’re hiding the docs for another sinister reason… but it’s just a suspicion… but that’s not the one I was referring to in my first post above…

        In that one, which I’m not looking to get into a discussion of now, is one in which so many different pieces of evidence pointing to the suspicion, as to make it almost a certainty that there was some truth to the charge, that many “coincidences” are simply not believable.

        Right now I believe our current administration is SO dishonest and corrupt that I find it hard to believe ANYTHING they say… And in many cases, I think that it’s safe to assume that they’re full of crap no matter what they’re talking about… in fact I can’t think of anything honest that Obummer has said since the beginning of the campaign, other than for his statement that he was out to “fundamentally change America”

        But when you say: “And occasionally conspiracy theories will stumble on the truth.” I dispute the idea that they always started out as conspiracy theories at all. When lots of people believe in the same idiotic theories, then it’s fail to call them conspiracy nuts, but when several people see the same legitimate evidence consistently piling up, then something simply stinks…

        • October 5, 2009 5:54 pm

          I’m not critiquing the fact that conspiracies exist. I’m critiquing a mindset that sees them everywhere. There are certain things that conspiracist crackpots of all political ideologies have in common. And my series will demonstrate that more.

          Further, as far as say JFK goes, pointing out anomalies in the official story and questioning the official story is not conspiracist crackpot thinking. Conspiracist crackpot thinking would be to take those factual anomalies and then take wild leaps of fancy unsupported by the facts to arrive at the conclusions that you want to be true..

          • Swemson permalink
            October 5, 2009 5:57 pm

            You’ll get no argument from me on that !

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 6, 2009 11:51 am

        I have never believed in conspiracies like the Kennedy assasination deal and the ones mentioned above there are a few that have some unanswered questions like James Rarl Ray and where did all his funds come from. I also believe that Obama was born in Hawaii but I have dealt with crooks liars and thugs for my professional life and I also know that something is being hidden what I do not know you do not go to the expense and trouble that the Obama team has gone through for nothing to oppose the release of what should be mundane documents. Now what is being hidden or covered I do not know nor do I pretend to know but I am certain he was born in Hawaii. Maybe he has duel citizenship. But that is simply a shot in the dark. Eventually it will come out.

  2. Isabel Isherwood permalink
    October 6, 2009 7:05 am

    When it comes to conspiracy theories I believe that Mark Twain hit it right when he said, “Three people can keep a secret, provided that two of them are dead.” That’s where I stand. The Truthers drive me bats#!t nuts. On one hand, the Bush administration was the most inept and stupid administration ever, according to them. On the other hand to pull off such a conspiracy of such a magnitude would require brilliance beyond what any of the Bush administration, and yes, that includes Cheney, were capable off. You can’t have it both ways guys.
    Isabel

    • In the know permalink
      October 6, 2009 8:32 am

      Sound logic…I like it!

  3. Judy permalink
    October 6, 2009 11:38 am

    Swemson,
    I agree that the Obama administration hiding certain data of his background is suspect, but, I believe that it their intent to make it suspect. Following in the footsteps of Alinsky et all, inducing chaos and disbelief is one of the initial steps in CHANGE. Rahm Emmanuel speaks volumes when talks about crisis and never letting one go to waste. Yesterday, Beck covered this very point of chaos and upheavel (financial and societal) as part of the trillogy of movement towards the goals of SOCIAL CHANGE. I believe that all of the chaos is thrown out there to divert attention from what is happening in front of our eyes. Nothing goes to waste in this administration. They are creating an enviroment of disbelief and chaos with skill and accuracy.

    • Swemson permalink
      October 6, 2009 12:16 pm

      Judy;

      You may well be right about this.. It seems like that’s what they’re trying to do… HOWEVER….

      Since they’re such expert liars, I say that it’s always worth considering ALL of their OTHER possible motives… & one of those possible motives which is clearly plausible to me is the idea that hiding his original birth docs, has NOTHING to do with WHERE he was born, and everything to do with WHO HIS REAL FATHER WAS !

      I have no real evidence to support this idea, but MANY others have been talking about this for quite a while, and the circumstances of his earlier years, and some of the things in his book point to this as possibly being true….

      Again.. I’m not advocating this idea.. I’m just saying that with all of his other lies, we have good reason to doubt ANYTHING he says….

      • In the know permalink
        October 6, 2009 2:11 pm

        Mr. Swemson (and everyone else here),

        The problem is that the government has abused its power so much that we even have to have this discussion. The sins of the past coupled with the daily government scandal have fostered an environment where a sane person would be a fool to implicitly trust our government. Politicians (on both sides of the aisle) have destroyed the America I was taught to believe in. I am upset (as of yesterday I think Beck made this point too) that it has reached this point. When did someone decide the things the government did were ok? Why is it “friends of friends” seem to get away with felonies in all levels of government; yet, we sit here and complain. The time for action is rapidly approaching, whether we like it or not. I do not subscribe to these crazy theories. However, 3 years ago would you have called anyone who told you anything going on in congress and the “O” administration a conspiracy theorist?

        • Jack Hampton permalink
          October 6, 2009 2:33 pm

          They could possibly be hiding something embarassing or something that is in fact illegal I just do not know what. As I stated I believe he was born in Hawaii but I aloso know that he was declared a citizen 0f Indonesia by his step father. There might be something there that they do not want out I doubt it has to do with place of birth. I just do not know what it is. However I am more concerned with what he is going to do with our troops and spending us into oblivion.

          • Swemson permalink
            October 6, 2009 4:53 pm

            Jack;

            I’m concerned too, but we’ve gone well past the point where being concerned is enough.

            I contend that the entire body of what he’s said and done makes it absolutely clear that he is INTENTIONALLY destroying America, and since I believe that to be true, I say that we are therefore justified, and indeed obligated to pursue anything about him and his background that may give us leverage to drive this TRAITOR out of our government…

            Regardless of what he may be trying to hide, it’s worth it to pursue it, because each and every lie of his that we can expose, creates more doubt about his honesty, integrity and true objectives.

            Some on this blog, who like me, want to return to the America that our founding fathers envisioned, don’t seem to believe that the current state of affaires is as dire as I do… and to all of those I say.. wake up… It is that bad !

            • Jack Hampton permalink
              October 7, 2009 3:15 am

              Oh I believe it is very dire and I am doing all I can to prepare myself and family. I am not building bunkers but being prudent and I agree with your comment.

  4. Keith permalink
    October 6, 2009 2:42 pm

    The fact is our goverment where monitoring Osamas phone calls since 1998,and hundreds of people had to be ivolved to make it happened, and their pilot training where done in america, and still they can’t prove how building 7 fell without any planes hitting it, and why did the lobby blow up minutes before building7 colapsed. and the head security manager of building7 said he heard bombs going off, and even firefighters where telling people to clear the building because there where bombs in it.
    Then on top of all of these unanswered questions, they still choose not to investigate the death of 3000 people at the world trade center. But yet they will shut down a whole freeway to investigate 2 or 3 people dying in a car crash. No goverment can be that incompetent,THEY KNEW.

    • In the know permalink
      October 6, 2009 2:58 pm

      ***Sigh*** Are you a pilot? How many people does it take to fly an airborne commercial airliner? Buildings fall all of the time during earthquakes and a lot more fall after earthquakes (but usually thats from all of the explosives the republicans pack in the basements). Have you ever heard a bomb detonate? How about a natural gas explosion? Do they sound different? Would you know what a “bomb” looked like? How would a firefighter who was rushing to do his job as two massive buildings determine that something was a bomb? Did you ask these questions first before you decided that the simplest, most obvious solution was not the correct one?

      • In the know permalink
        October 6, 2009 3:01 pm

        Sorry. Buildingsdetermine.

    • Swemson permalink
      October 6, 2009 5:08 pm

      Please re-read what Keith wrote above.. slowly.. and savor the delicate nuances of his literary style.

      Am I the only one who notices that this MORON is almost functionally illiterate ?

      How can anyone take ANYTHING this cretin says seriously ?

      And BTW, I wouldn’t be surprised if the FBI were indeed monitoring his calls since 1998.. In fact I hope they were…

      THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO BE KEEPING A CLOSE EYE ON CORRUPT COMMUNIST SUBVERSIVES !!!

      IF BHO HADN’T WON THE ELECTION, HE’D NEVER BE ALLOWED TO EVEN VISIT THE WHITE HOUSE., MUCH LESS BE ALLOWED TO GET ANY KIND OF SECURITY CLEARANCE.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 7, 2009 3:10 am

      Dear God in heaven
      yes Keith they knew it was George Bush that planted the bombs. The fire department of NY and the police department of NY along with the CIA and the NSA, and the NAACP were in on it and I bet you did not know this, ( Hey this warning is for the sarcastically challenged) the JOOOS did not show up for work that day. I can stand about anything but I cannot stand this stupidity. You are an idiot of the first order to even believe that the US government and all that would have to be involved were in on it and set explosives. I bet you learned this when you had your idiotic head up Rosy’s rosey red rectum. There I deserve any punishment I get but I cannot abide an idiot like this. Where do they come from?

      • Swemson permalink
        October 7, 2009 12:39 pm

        Jack;

        “Where do they come from?”

        Consider this…. There are so many of these loons crashing every rational right of center blog that I’ve seen, that it’s become obvious to me that these creeps are sent here by the far left political smear machine, NOT to change our minds, but just to keep a watch on what their opposition is saying and to disrupt and heckle us wherever possible…

        Did you notice my post above yours… this idiot is functionally illiterate, read his post again slowly… his command of the English language is well below that of the typical 12 year old inner city gang banger….

        This people are lower than whale poop…… don’;t be surprised when you see more of this crap in the future…

  5. Judy permalink
    October 6, 2009 4:15 pm

    Swemson,
    I agree. I have come to the point of total disbelief in this administration. It is almost impossible to decifer the messages. Deceit is rampant in D.C. among all politicians. I do agree with you that we have to look at EVERYTHING and yet not allow ourselves to focus on just one thing. I have real difficulty coming to terms with the fact that D.C. is so corrupt and down right malicious that my country is being destroyed and that the very future of our children is in question. Beck established the Watch Dog to allow us to report what we find regardless of party.The corruption threshold is now so high that it has removed responsibility and accountability from the lexicon of the Washington elected.Shameful.

    • Swemson permalink
      October 6, 2009 5:27 pm

      Judy;

      On numerous occasions, I’ve said that the most appropriate name to describe this new ultra virulent sect of the far left, is NEROIST, rather than liberal or even progressive, both of which words have many potentially positive connotations.

      The term “NEROISM”, most recently used to describe a post-modernist school of art and design, perfectly explains WHY things in our government have become SO much more blatantly dishonest and corrupt in recent years:
      ————————————————————-
      “NEROISM describes the contemporary condition of hedonistic behaviour in the face of
      catastrophe, and also justifies it: ours is the last generation that will be able to enjoy such
      wanton irresponsibility, so let’s enjoy it while we can!”
      ————————————————————-

      During the primaries, I remember thinking that Hillary was SO EVIL, that she’d happily preside over the end of America as we know it, as long as she got HER chance to sit on the throne, and everyone kiss her ring…

      Now I know that BHO was indeed even worse than Hillary.

Trackbacks

  1. Bookworm Comments on Conspiracies « NewsReal Blog
  2. Crackpot Chronicles: Van Jones, Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, Rorschach, the Truthers, And Me – Part I « Right Sided American Kafir
  3. Rebuttal of the Day: One of Our Regulars Takes on a Truther Crackpot « NewsReal Blog
  4. Crackpot Chronicles: Van Jones, Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, Rorschach, the Truthers, And Me – Part III « NewsReal Blog
  5. Crackpot Chronicles: Van Jones, Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, Rorschach, the Truthers, And Me – Part IV « NewsReal Blog
  6. Crackpot Chronicles: Van Jones, Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, Rorschach, the Truthers, And Me – Part V « NewsReal Blog
  7. The Final Word on the Crackpot Conspiracist Mindset « NewsReal Blog

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