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Rebuttal of the Day: One of Our Regulars Takes on a Truther Crackpot

October 6, 2009
crackpot
I knew hoped that my series on my engagement with a 9/11 Truther Nutjob would result in at least one Crackpot Conspiracy Theorist dropping by the comments section to further prove my points. One did and one of our wittiest regulars took him to town:
Keith
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// The fact is our goverment where monitoring Osamas phone calls since 1998,and hundreds of people had to be ivolved to make it happened, and their pilot training where done in america, and still they can’t prove how building 7 fell without any planes hitting it, and why did the lobby blow up minutes before building7 colapsed. and the head security manager of building7 said he heard bombs going off, and even firefighters where telling people to clear the building because there where bombs in it.
Then on top of all of these unanswered questions, they still choose not to investigate the death of 3000 people at the world trade center. But yet they will shut down a whole freeway to investigate 2 or 3 people dying in a car crash. No goverment can be that incompetent,THEY KNEW.

One point that I didn’t make in my series is that conspiracist whackjobs often can barely write. If you’re not smart enough to figure out basic grammar how are you going to have the brains to beat the “New World Order”?

In The Know

***Sigh*** Are you a pilot? How many people does it take to fly an airborne commercial airliner? Buildings fall all of the time during earthquakes and a lot more fall after earthquakes (but usually thats from all of the explosives the republicans pack in the basements). Have you ever heard a bomb detonate? How about a natural gas explosion? Do they sound different? Would you know what a “bomb” looked like? How would a firefighter who was rushing to do his job as two massive buildings determine that something was a bomb? Did you ask these questions first before you decided that the simplest, most obvious solution was not the correct one?

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111 Comments
  1. October 6, 2009 8:18 pm

    It is difficult to have a reasonable debate with individuals who are ignorant, irrational or both. It is, however, interesting to see how their minds work.

  2. Louie723 permalink
    October 6, 2009 9:01 pm

    and still they can’t prove how building 7 fell without any planes hitting it, and why did the lobby blow up minutes before building7 colapsed.

    Burning buildings fall all the time, even when not hit by airplanes. WTC7 was on fire and it eventually collapsed.

    they still choose not to investigate the death of 3000 people at the world trade center.

    Ever hear of the 9/11 Commission?

    the head security manager of building7 said he heard bombs going off

    There were a half dozen seismographs in operation at the time and none of them detected any exploding bombs.

    • Kim permalink
      October 7, 2009 8:04 am

      Call me crazy but I do believe it was a inside job. I think we all know the gov will do anything to put fear in all of us, control. I have read all of the information on all parties reporting. America has this mind set that gov can be trusted and take good care of them. they also have this mind set that Rep and Dems are different but they work together as one toward their one world gov and that plan alone has been in the works since FDR..and with the help of world bank. People don’t learn from history. One President stated there was something evil that he could not put his finger on.all of them warned us of appeasement, nation building and not ever to give up our guns in case gov got to controling. After Hitler died, many came here to start the one world gov again. People are blind. Even the scripture warns us. But then G-d has been thrown out. Even with Katrina a lady and the whole church went there using many caravans with supplies. They were standing about two blocks when the big loud boom went off as they blew up the last levee. many in the next towns would not let the people thru after crossing the bridge. many towns could have taken people in but people could not get there. One women cop walked thru on yelling you all got 40 minutes to get out before the water hits. now how did she know that..and more people got shot by cops and black water who were not stealing for profit, they only wanted to dress in dry clothes, eat and get out. and the cops shot them and stole more than anyone did. and what about the trailors up the steet that never got there, and when they did and there was no elec, people had to sleep on the ground instead of the trailars why, they were told it was not safe??..were were the buses, even school buses. locked up…yes…and the one that got taken by a teen who helped some escape. and does the gov only have one or two helicoptors? and how about the rescue boats..sailing along..one told some teens on a roof, let me see your titties..and when the girls turned , they laughed and left them there..America is asleep and letting communism hit like fire..If gov wanted you safe, the borders would have been closed long ago. now we are full up with disease, violence, drugs, rats the size of cats not to mention all kinds of flu”..I wonder how many people have to loose their house, jobs and can’t send kids to college or pay their bills before they wake up..even their favorites the rep..are very quiet.. all of them see what is going on, not much outrage huh folks..Now they want to pass a bill without the public reading it. I can tell you,,you will be very sorry…In the meantime all the wrong moves and all will be talking when the boms start falling and looking at history where all powerful nations fell was for the same reason..communism..with a smile of course..I guess the leaders have forgotten that we the people are the Gov..they are hired to serve us..but America is waking up..and still the gov and their buddies are pocketing our cash while our army is weakening and they continue to support the enemies..How many know that the fake bail out could have paid all mortgages in the US and all of us would have medical. but they let the enemies drill on our coast and we have more oil in seven states and more in Alaska than Saudi dreamed of. from the Bush election..2000 till now 2010..we could have built refineries. and drilled which we do more clean than any country. so you have to ask yourself why would they keep us dependant on middle east oil? they want us to fail ..they want a one world gov with no borders and want EU to rule us all. and you are not going to like it..Hitler is turning over in his grave so proud…as now his plan will be world wide as the scripture tells us it will..If this gov even began to care about us , they would inforce our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, our Declaration of Indep..and the enemy hitting our barracks an the cole ,,the enemy should have gotten a bomb..now we train the enemy, and all else. and still people believe in gov..sorry but I am not that stupid..and I have done my homework..I call them liars for hire..get it in your head. they are taking us down on purpose and even sending the green jobs to other countries.. how about that. how long has it been since you read your constitution? they are shredding it ..and you sit here at slam the ones who KNOW what is going on. it is in PLAIN SITE…

      • October 7, 2009 8:10 am

        “Call me crazy but I do believe it was a inside job.”

        You’re crazy.

        (Sorry to steal your thunder on this one, Brent. It’s a good line for whenever someone says “call me crazy” and then says something crazy.)

        • Brent Smith permalink
          October 7, 2009 12:18 pm

          No offense taken. It’s a great line. Also, funny because it’s true.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 7, 2009 12:26 pm

        Kim Kim
        You mix in a few truths with some very outragous claims. So they blew up the levies as well. By the way do you have a failed Amway business or have you been recruited into scientology? Are you per chance waiting for the next Hail Bop comet visit? Dear God they are real they do exist! I thought people were being funny but people like this really exist?

        • Brent permalink
          October 7, 2009 3:46 pm

          WTF??!? Amway is a scam!!?? Why did my Scientology auditor not tell me this??

  3. OoglyBoogly permalink
    October 7, 2009 12:09 am

    Gee, who do you trust? The government and mainstream media that conned us into war in Iraq and Afghanistan, needlessly killing over 5,000 Americans and wounding 100,000 more…

    …or the 900+ architects and engineers at http://ae911truth.org who are convinced the towers came down by controlled demolition?

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 7, 2009 5:50 am

      Nuts Coo Coo I guess I was to angry in my other comment and it was removed I understand. Oogly do you check under your bed every night before bed. Have you built your bunker yet and are you trying to procure foo gas? You might be able to tap your own self manufactured sources for gas. Lets see how can I reason with you? Do you understand the scope and numbers of people that this type of conspiracy would involve? Not just from this country but from others as well. Where all the people on the planes part of the conspiracy and how did they manage to get the terrorist to go along with and sync with the timed detonations? Have you seen a doctor lately and explained your fears and problems to him or her. Please consider it. It is not to late.

  4. Jonathan permalink
    October 7, 2009 3:51 am

    Exactly how did the bomb planting team manage to do all the demolition-style preparation necessary to pancake the building without being seen? All the removal of paneling and trim to expose the supports and beams to be sabotaged, all the drilling and coring, all the debris removal. Each floor covered a square acre of space. That’s a lot of drilling. Did they work nights?

    Was the sabotage team all killed after the work was done?

  5. Trenchant Commentator permalink
    October 7, 2009 5:26 am

    Never engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed. It’s simply too cruel!

  6. Christy permalink
    October 7, 2009 7:30 am

    1st grade grammar/spelling lesson:

    were: v. Second person singular and plural and first and third person plural past indicative of be. ie. The government were…(although in Am. English the verb tense should be ‘was’) There were bombs…

    where: adverb. in or at what place: Where is the car? to or toward what place or point: Where did he go? in what situation or position: Where is the bomb?

    Perhaps our writer does not speak English as their (not “there”) first language, or they “were” (not “where”) a product of our public schools…

  7. Esteban Cafe, World permalink
    October 7, 2009 8:54 am

    If, as the truthers assert, everything about Mr. Bin Ladin was known since 1998 then wouldn’t that make the Clintons members of The Conspiracy? Maybe America should water board them and find out.

    It is sad to see that America is as ready to believe silly rumors and conspiracy plots as those in any other country. Does your mail man always deliver your mail to you and not to your neighbor? Does your IRS always give consistent tax advice?

    On one hand government is ineffective and inefficient; on the other hand they can pull off the most miraculous of conspiracies–without anyone on the inside spilling the proverbial beans. Only the most amazing people can hold two such contradictory thoughts at the same moment while rationalizing & synthesizing them into a coherent thesis. We generally call these people insane.

  8. October 7, 2009 9:03 am

    Oh yeah, been there arguing with Truthers myself, including those who say steel beams can’t melt or otherwise be damaged by fire. Even my 27 years as a firefighter people want to argue about the effects of fire in steel. I have a link on my site that explains clearly why Building 7 fell, they still ignore it.

    http://wcwb.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/truthers-driving-me-crazy/

  9. October 7, 2009 9:26 am

    The Mother of all CRACKPOTS?

    This message is directed at David Swindle. I am offended by him calling me a crackpot for believing that there was a governmental conspiracy to bring down the three buildings at the WTC.

    We know for a FACT that building #7 was “brought down” by explosive
    means…the manager of the building said so…and there is even a YouTube
    video showing him saying it. The building was never hit by a plane or
    any other machine to cause it to fall by itself.

    Additionally, the odds of the two other buildings “falling by themselves”
    as they did on the same day, and within minutes of each other, is
    mathematically impossible. The only way such an event could happen
    is if it was MANMADE. It was MANMADE that the fires started (planes
    hitting the two buildings) and it was MANMADE that both buildings
    were not quickly BROUGHT DOWN on the same day.

    Additionally, the Pentagon does not appear to have been hit by a
    large passenger airliner. No plane parts were shown on the ground,
    no fire was present and pictures show that uncharred office furniture
    and office decorations were not in the presence of fire nor explosions.

    It is clear and proven that the government is involved in a vast
    coverup both in the Pentagon incident as well as the three buildings
    at the WTC location. There are unsolved questions the other air
    craft which crashed in Pennslyvania (Flight 93).

    Crackpots? You and David Horowitz seem to love that term and
    use it frequently in your articles. Anyone that likes Ron Paul is a
    CRACKPOT. Birthers are CRACKPOTS. Truthers are CRACKPOTS.

    And you and David Horowitz dare to put out DiscoverTheNetwork.org,
    FrontPage and NEWSREAL?

    What makes you think you are immune from the mocking term,
    “CRACKPOT.” Apparently you believe you are not a CRACKPOT
    because you have some sort of protection from the namecalling.

    You are no better than Nancy Pelosi calling returning veterans,
    pro-lifers, Constitutionalist, Ron Paulers, birthers, and FrontPage
    readers as TERRORISTS.

    I urge you to get off your highhorse and cease calling me a
    CRACKPOT. It offends me as much as it would be to call someone
    a n—–, dy–, bea–r or bitch. You have stepped over the line
    and your arguments have a lot to be desired.

    Yes, I am a subscriber to Mr. Horowitz’s NEWREAL. And I use his DiscoverTheNetwork.org webpage frequently in my research. Therefore I a definitely a CRACKPOT.

    Edward C. Noonan

    • October 7, 2009 10:12 am

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crackpot?o=

      This is the dictionary defintion of “crackpot” (which is one of my favorite words):

      crack⋅pot
      –noun
      1. a person who is eccentric, unrealistic, or fanatical.
      –adjective
      2. eccentric; impractical; fanatical: crackpot ideas

      Those who assert “inside job” regarding 9/11 clearly fit this definition.

    • Jonathan permalink
      October 7, 2009 10:50 am

      Asserting it is “mathematically impossible” is absurd. It has to do with math about as much as it has to do with astrology. It is absurd to claim the Pentagon was not hit by an airliner. Multitudes of witnesses SAW the plane hit the Pentagon. And, as one would expect, there is a corresponding REAL AIRLINER with REAL PASSENGERS that took off from a REAL AIRPORT and was seen on REAL RADAR SCREENS by REAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS as it tracked to the target and disappeared.

      The airplane basically crash landed through a parking lot before it struck the building. It took out cars and light poles. Missiles don’t do that. It created gouges in the ground. Missiles don’t do that. The impact spot is totally what one would expect to see from an indirect hit at ground level on a massive heavily reinforced structure. Not to mention that airplane parts were found all over the place. One of the landing gear went all the way through the building.

      This was no building full of little old ladies from the Sunday bridge club either. Trying to fake out a building full of people who know exactly what airplanes and missiles and blast damage look like first hand is pretty risky. I guarantee you there were plenty of Air Force people over there looking around.

      And, I guess you thing the federal aviation accident investigators were in on the plot too, ey?

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 7, 2009 2:13 pm

        Jonathan
        Not to mention there there are bunchs of photos showing the landing gear and as you stated all manner of aircraft parts. I suppose though they trucked those in there in a Uhaul after the detonation. Opps no I am now sure they hauled the aircraft parts there and planted them before the detonation. You get my drift about these people Coo Coo Coo Coo.

    • In the know permalink
      October 7, 2009 11:01 am

      Hmmmmmmm….who is the “we” that knows for a FACT that #7 was brought down by explosives. You say that mathematics proves it was explosives? I won’t reiterate my previous post. You can see the “actual” argument that shoots holes in your logic above. However, since you brought it up, let me expound. What was the total mass of the two trade center towers? 930,000,000kg. Now, if F=mg (thats F orce= m ass x g ravity), then The total force of impact at ground zero (in close proximity to building 7)= the product of 930,000,000kg x 9.8m/s2. That’s a lot of force to come crashing down in close proximity to an older building NOT designed to withstand even a moderate earthquake. I wonder if it caused enough structural damage to weaken the load bearing support of #7. I wonder if, in that weakened condition, sub ground level fires caused by broken gas lines and ignited by open wiring would provide enough activation energy to cause a collapse. I wonder if those explosions would echo through an empty building and surrounding concrete jungle and sound like “bombs”. I also wonder, If a building that has significantly more weight above the ground, supported by columns that would take serious damage near ground level from the transfer of force from the collapse of two massive buildings (largest in the world I think) in the immediate vicinity, would eventually collapse. NAH….must have been a massive conspiracy. Have you ever heard of Ockham’s razor?

    • October 7, 2009 11:46 am

      The other thing that’s so delightful about Mr. Noonan’s comment is that he was kind enough to link us to his website:
      http://www.4xtreme.org/

      As you might have gathered from his comment in addition to supporting the 9/11 Truther conspiracy he also supports the Obama birth certificate conspiracy.

      Thus my point is demonstrated further: conspiracism is a mentality which causes people to embrace numerous conspiracy notions. The problem is not specific conspiracy ideas, the problem is a way of thinking.

      • Jonathan permalink
        October 7, 2009 12:26 pm

        But David,

        The Birthers and the Truthers are two different birds. Apples and Oranges

        One conspiracy relies on fanciful stories that fly in the face of observed reality, while omitting explanations for other necessary effects and consequences of their own version – such as, where is the missing airliner if it didn’t hit the Pentagon? The Truthers are asserting an impossibly massive falsification of evidence on an international scale that flies in the face of what the entire world saw with its own collective eyes.

        The other conspiracy theory is based upon an ABSENCE of requested proof. The officials have refused to release evidence asked for, and released what has not been asked for. The Birthers are challenging statements. Nothing unusual about the premise. People lie about their birthday and falsify their personal records all the time.

        I am comfortable with the idea that the left is totally unscrupulous and deceptive and will do anything to achieve goals. So, I believe that it is entirely possible that Obama COULD BE a non-native. But, despite the fact that I’m used to my government lying to me, I’m not prepared to believe that they fired a missile at the Pentagon and then said it was hit by an airliner, when all evidence points to the contrary, and the missing airliner is parked in a hanger somewhere in Kansas and the passengers held hostage at Area 51.

        One fake birth certificate versus a giant global conspiracy involving hundreds of thousands of illuminati minions.

        • October 7, 2009 12:34 pm

          Not really, for the Birth Certificate Conspiracy to be true there would have to be hundreds of people in on it as well.

          “So, I believe that it is entirely possible that Obama COULD BE a non-native.”

          Acknowledging that it’s possible that Obama could be a non-native is different from claiming that he was born in Kenya.

          Acknowleding that there are anomalies and unknowns in the “official” 9/11 story is different from claiming “inside job.”

          In both cases Ockham’s razor should be applied. Regarding the Birthers we can never truly KNOW that Obama was born in Hawaii. Even if whatever document they wanted was produced it would not prove it. It would only prove that we have some document which could easily be manufactured which says he was born in Hawaii. But if we look at what evidence IS available the most probable answer is that Obama was born in Hawaii.

          • Jonathan permalink
            October 7, 2009 1:32 pm

            There are TWO Birther conspiracy theories – one asserting that Obama’s Hawaii certificate is fake, and another asserting the fakery of his Kenyan birth certificate.

            No one would remember a baby being born in some hospital 48 years ago, if there was no reason to remember, except for a few close associates or family members. No staffer of the hospital would be able to credibly remember the event. Everybody is either dead or was too young to know.

            For most people, a birth certificate would pretty much settle the issue. Undoubtedly, there would then be an examination of the document for forgery. But that works both ways. A birth certificate from Kenya HAS BEEN produced and doubts have been raised by pro-Obama pundits. All that has been produced from Hawaii is a Certificate of Live Birth.

            We have one birth certificate from Kenya, relatives in Kenya who say Obama was born in Mombasa, we have an investigator who went to Kenya to fact find and was arrested upon arriving at the airport and deported out… versus a certificate from Hawaii. Sounds like a toss up to me and the conspiracy theory cuts both ways. But, if this were Sarah Palin in question, we all know what would be going on right now.

            I’m not sure about the laws, and I haven’t been interested enough to find out. But it seems to me that what really matters is the nationality of his parents. I’m not sure if it matters where Obama was born if his mother was American.

            • October 7, 2009 1:52 pm

              Jonathan, you’re the same person I talked to a few weeks ago about using the phrase “New World Order” aren’t you?

              • Jonathan permalink
                October 7, 2009 2:34 pm

                I sure am. I don’t care much about Obama’s birth certificate. But I do ascribe to the idea that there are a bunch of leftists who want to create a global superstate. I believe that history is nothing but a series of conflicting conspiracies.

            • Jack Hampton permalink
              October 7, 2009 3:15 pm

              Jonathan
              I now do you not feel better that I have confessed for us? Hehehehe

          • Jack Hampton permalink
            October 7, 2009 2:36 pm

            We also know that there were birth announcements in the paper in regard to his birth in Hawaii. Now that is not conclusive proof but it is convincing. I still believe he is refusing to release a lot of documents because of something I do not know what. There have been articles on many places about the money spent fighting the release of those documents I even believe on FOX news site someone would have to pull that up. I believe he was born here I just think it is something else. Something probably embarasssing.

            • Jonathan permalink
              October 7, 2009 3:29 pm

              Someone posted above that Obama went to college as a foreign student. Don’t know if that’s true or not, but I can tell you that lots of people understand the value of a US citizenship relative to benefits, and birth announcements are useful to bolster claims. If Obama was a foreign student for college, I wonder what birth certificate he showed. Maybe he’s not covering up his birthplace but fraud in applying for various government loans. There is a reason all his personal records are locked up, and it could be nothing more than just legitimate fear or even nose thumbing at those who seek accountability.

              It’s all conjecture. But this isn’t in the realm of Area 51 level whacko theories.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 7, 2009 1:41 pm

      Edward
      I am offended that you are offended the term crack pot used by Mr. Swindle is to kind. Most sensible people would refer to you a a raving lunatic. Your facts are pulled from that dark nether region that many odd balls find there so called facts. Your assertions have been disproved over and over again yet you persist. I think we all know what the clinical fefinition of that is. But just a few questions for you if I may? Are you by chance still searching for the second gunman on the grassy knoll? Have you found the true assasin of Abe Lincoln and guess what it was not Booth? Do you know for a fact that the disaster at Waco was planned murders because the BATF could have arrested Koresh on one of his many trips to town despite the fact that they were not attempting to arrest him but to serve a plain old search warrant? Do you by chance have a failed Amway business? Coo Coo Coo Coo. God forgive me I have a lot of Hail Mary’s and a lot of Our Fathers to do. Mr. Swindel I understand again it has been a very tough day for me.

  10. John Wangsgaard permalink
    October 7, 2009 11:47 am

    The big difference between truthers and birthers is if Obama would release his real birth certificate (not certificate of live birth) then the whole issue would go away or at least lose great momentum. Instead he spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep nearly all of his records sealed. Why do you think that is?

    • October 7, 2009 12:02 pm

      What is the source of this “Obama is spending money to hide his birth certificate” claim? You say he’s spent hundreds of thousands, other birthers say he’s spent a million dollars. What’s the evidence that he’s spending ANY money to cover up ANYTHING?

      Needed: links to reputable sources immediately.

      • In the know permalink
        October 7, 2009 2:40 pm

        Here’s what the birthers should really focus on. Did “O” ever rescind his US citizenship. He received financial aide during college as a foreign student. To do that, he could not have been a US citizen. It is a matter of law that one cannot be reinstated as a US citizen once citizenship has been voluntarily rescinded. If he did not, then he commited fraud. I think that is the reason he will not release the document. He will lose credibility with the moderate “head in the sand” crowd that refuses to accept the facts that have been unearthed regarding his administration. Once his “HOPE” slogan changes to “LOL” the mist will be removed from the majorities eyes.

        “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. ” Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)
        16th president of US (1809 – 1865)

        One would think a president from Illinois would know that one by heart.

  11. October 7, 2009 12:09 pm

    Oh we need big time psyco wards-there are nut jobs out there and I dont mean ACORNS-

  12. Keith permalink
    October 7, 2009 1:48 pm

    Most people are not engineers, which means when you see a building fall you don’t have the expertise to validate what made it collapse.
    When I hear all these engineers and explosive experts say the twin towers was a controlled demolition and all these non engineers reject it because they think they know more than the engineers themselves, they’re trying to make themselves seem smarter than they really are,they can never prove it, only reject it. Who’s really the CRACKPOT…?

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 7, 2009 3:03 pm

      Keith
      Okay okay! I give up you are right it was a conspiracy and I am willing to confess. It was the Shriners. Several of those little cars were seen on the street just before the controled detonations and lots of fez wearing men seen outside the building telling off color jokes. Keith you have cracked the case how can America ever thank you and please pass on our thanks to those Engineers who helped you. By the way dont you just love it when they blow those whistles on those trains. Now you can move on rested in the wisdom you have saved the day. Farewell Farewell

    • In the know permalink
      October 7, 2009 3:36 pm

      What was the total mass of the two trade center towers? 930,000,000kg. Now, if F=mg (thats F orce= m ass x g ravity), then The total force of impact at ground zero (in close proximity to building 7)= the product of 930,000,000kg x 9.8m/s2. That’s a lot of force to come crashing down in close proximity to an older building NOT designed to withstand even a moderate earthquake. Look up a few comments to see the rest of a LOGICAL explanation. There, happy. That should be “engineery” enough. I call those facts, they usually help when making an argument.

  13. Jack Hampton permalink
    October 7, 2009 1:55 pm

    That should have read , a raving lunatic, and fefinition should be, definition sorry I cannot type but I would not want to confound Edwards valuble research.

  14. October 7, 2009 3:44 pm

    Poor David,

    You are so brainwashed!

    Rumsfeld said a missle hit the Pentagon in the early hours of the 9/11 incident.
    Then he changed his story to TERRORISTS FROM THE SKIES did it.

    READ RUMSFELD’s WORDS AT:
    http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Missile-Not-Flight-77.html

    Former 9/11 Commissioner Tim Roemer slips up and says a missile hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

    Why not watch it for yourself? See the video at:

    (above) Witness the missle strike the Pentagon (not a jumbo jet)!
    See the last second of this 26 second video!

    WITNESSES SAW A MISSLE hit the Pentagon!

    So, poor David, here is my VIDEO PROOF…where is yours?

    If you cannot believe what YOU SEE you are brainwashed!

    ======================================

    SECOND ITEM:

    The birth certificate is not the issue.

    The issue is DID SOETORO HAVE TWO PARENTS THAT
    WERE U.S. CITIZENS?

    No he did not…his daddy was a foreign national. His daddy was
    a British subject and later a citizen of Kenya. Hence, Soetoro
    is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN! Period!

    Additionally Soetoro became a citizen of Indonesia. To date
    Soetoro has not proven that he took the OATH OF ALLEGIANCE
    and regained his US Citizenship. Until he proves this, he is
    an illegal alien and NOT a Citizen of the United States.

    Mock me all you want, but if you are a faithful American and
    a faithful Constitutionalist, you would be concerned that we
    MAY have a person in charge of our Army, Navy, and Air Force
    and all of our national secrets that IS NOT A CITIZEN OF
    OUR NATION.

    Such a liar, con-artist and charlatan should be brought to justice
    and that is all we are asking…we are asking for a court somewhere
    in Amerika to hear this case…all refuse and all seem part of
    the conspiracy to deceive the Amerikan people.

    Edward C. Noonan

    • October 7, 2009 4:20 pm

      This is delightful.

      You do understand that I’ve already had THIS EXACT SAME DIALOGUE WITH SOMEONE WHO IS JUST LIKE YOU.

      Start at the beginning:
      http://newsrealblog.com/2009/10/04/crackpot-chronicles-van-jones-glenn-beck-ron-paul-rorschach-the-truthers-and-me-part-i/

      My whole point of my series is further demonstrated.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 8, 2009 12:24 am

        Mr. Swindle
        You have had two of these conversations? Have you devoloped a craving for thorazine shots and a propensity to wear homemade tinfoil hats. God help you now these nuts have found a new home and will destroy this site with there insane conspiracies. Every doped up escapee from the funny farm and permanant residents of Belle View will take over. Well it was interesting till the nutburgers got here.

    • October 7, 2009 4:53 pm

      “The issue is DID SOETORO HAVE TWO PARENTS THAT
      WERE U.S. CITIZENS?

      No he did not…his daddy was a foreign national. His daddy was
      a British subject and later a citizen of Kenya. Hence, Soetoro
      is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN! Period!”

      Every birther has a different story. And this just proves how uneducated Noonan is. If someone is born on American soil then they are automatically an American citizen regardless of whether their parents are or not.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States_of_America

      Ridiculous! I mean this is COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

      If a child was born in the United States to illegal immigrants then 35 years later he would be eligible to be President.

      But I’m sure Noonan will have some rambling, incoherent, link-filled response to this point and it’s probably a mistake for me to even bother engaging him. I just couldn’t help myself.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 8, 2009 12:28 am

        Okay Swindle go get in line and get your shots. The mind control shots that they pretend is for the Flu. Then you will be compiant and obediant.

  15. Keith permalink
    October 7, 2009 3:58 pm

    To Louie723, and in the know, don’t know the engineer that designed the world trade center buildings designed them to withstand a category 3 hurricane.
    You guys seem to have memory lapses, there where fires at the world trade center before 911, why didn’t the buildings fall then.
    You can’t explain how a plane can hit the top of the twin towers and cause a gas line to explode in building 7 which was a block away, how come no other buildings gas lines exploded causing multiple colapses.
    The seismograph reports did pick up multiple blasts, the video footage don’t lie, there where a small amount of material that where taken from ground zero before they rapidly scrubbed it and hauled it away. Gun powder desidue where found in some of the samples.I would believe an engineer or explosives expert before i would believe a CRACKPOT…with no expertise…?

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 8, 2009 12:14 am

      Keith
      They may have had a low grade fire but never a fire as intense as the ones caused by burning Jet fuel or JP4. The planes did not hit at the top of the buildings they hit several floors beneath the top. Remenber all the people jumping to there deaths to escape the flames? The burning jet fuel weakened the support structures and the top floors pancaked down ward creating more force as each fell. It is obvious to any run of the mill idiot. the top engineers in the world and firemen from all over the world have explained it. We saw the planes hit the buildings with our own eyes. We have the terrorist on video. But y0u are not the run of the mill idiot you are an extrodinary idiot. I cannot believe people are trying to have a serious discussion with this crack pot. As I stated earlier Coo Coo Coo Coo.

    • In the know permalink
      October 8, 2009 9:05 am

      GUNPOWDER? You are an idiot!!!!!!! Gunpowder does not have anywear near the potential energy needed to bring a building down in any concealable amount. I hope you’ve exhausted all of your computer time at the mental hospital. I am tired. This will be my last rebuttal. 1. read my post, don’t scan it. Your accusations seem to miss several points that I covered. 2. After reading, ask a nurse for help comprehending it. 3. A hurricane and an earthquake produce different kinds of torsional forces. Wind sheer vs seismic. Example: rolling a bowling ball into your leg vs blowing on your leg? Which will do more damage? Skyscrapers do not fall during hurricanes, the do during earthquakes. Which do you think trillions of tons of impact force is more like? 4. There were fires in the trade centers everyday. They were caused by burning cigarettes, why didn’t the building fall then? 5. Gas lines break during earthquakes. No one said they broke when the planes hit. They broke during the collapse of towers 1 and 2. Which, is exactly what I SAID!. Read the whole thing before you comment.

  16. October 7, 2009 5:11 pm

    Poor David,

    Why are you ducking my post? I told you a missle was clearing seen going into the Pentagon. I sent you the link…you refused to view it. Why are you so scared to look at the PROOF? Why do you hide your head in the sand? Show me the JUMBO JET!

    You claim the THREE WTC buildings came crumbling down when hit by a two jumbo jets, so why was the Pentagon barely affected?

    Take another look at what CNN reported:

    Or are you afraid?

    Edward C. Noonan

    • October 7, 2009 5:28 pm

      Why do I even waste my time? I know it won’t do any good. What wasn’t reasoned in can’t be reasoned out.

      There’s your jumbo jet:

      http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=6

      “FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. “It was absolutely a plane, and I’ll tell you why,” says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. “I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box.” Kilsheimer’s eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: “I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?” ”

      —-

      Rational, thinking people came across this evidence years ago. Crackpots like yourself still have not. It’s really pretty offensive that people like you would take the tragedy of 9/11 to fuel your anti-government pathology. You sicken me.

      • Brent permalink
        October 7, 2009 5:55 pm

        Booyakasha

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 8, 2009 12:50 am

        Crap will do that no matter where you find it. The really sad part is that it has sickened him and he does not even realize it. Are we done yet boss because I am running out of ridicule material.

    • Jonathan permalink
      October 7, 2009 5:51 pm

      I’m not afraid.

      So the hundred plus people who saw the plane are lying.

      So the phone calls from the people on the plane to their relatives were faked?

      So the airliner that supposedly never hit the Pentagon didn’t exist?

      So the radar images were faked and the air traffic controllers tracking the plane on a multitude of ATC systems on the east coast are all in on the plot?

      So the passengers who supposedly got on the non existant airliner don’t exist?

      If they exist, where are the passengers at now?

      The airline is part of the conspiracy, so they invented a fictitious flight and sold tickets for it to make it look good, but then what did they tell people who wanted to buy one? Or did they just put them on another flight and hope they didn’t notice?

      So the family members of the passengers are fabrications?

      So the hijackers identified in the press are fabrications?

      So the airplane parts are fabricated? When were the parts planted in the building? By the firemen?

      So the conspiracy was overbudget and they couldn’t afford an airliner to hit the Pentagon, so they used a missile and tried to claim it was another airplane?

      So, the conspirators just took a chance that no one would witness the event and report that they didn’t see an airplane?

      So the conspirators weren’t smart enough to turn off the surveillance cameras in the toll plaza?

      So the conspirators knocked down the light poles and overturned some cars and created gouges to immitate a crash landing?

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 8, 2009 12:56 am

        Jonathan
        That was very good but alas I fear to no avail. You see it was “BOOSH the dummy that arranged all this diabolical evil and only these few nuts know the truth.

    • In the know permalink
      October 8, 2009 9:24 am

      The pentagon is the central command of our military. It is made of steel reinforced concrete. It is significantly lower in height than an skyscraper. Skyscraper lower floors must be strong enough to support the weight of the upper floors. This weight is multipled by the force of gravity pushing down upon it. Think of it like this. Take 2 2×4’s (thats wood). One is 30 feet long, the other is 2. Stand them up and punch. Which one breaks and which one hurts? You must have failed high school physics.

  17. October 7, 2009 5:13 pm

    CORRECTION:

    I told you a missle was clearing seen going into the Pentagon.
    I told you a missle was clearLY seen going into the Pentagon.

    ecn

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 8, 2009 12:35 am

      Edward
      Have you seen a lot of UFO’s as well? Have you been “TAKEN” Did they do those weird experiments on you as well? Was it more than once? I bet you are like that poor lady out west that was TAKEN over and over again. We all know you have suffered so. we understand You have fooled them and have stopped taking that nasty medication they want you to take every day that prevents you from seeing the truth. Your such a lonely hero.

  18. Esteban Cafe, World permalink
    October 7, 2009 5:21 pm

    Mr. Noonan, did you review:

    I wonder at you Americans who always think that your inept government is behind these atrocious acts. To what end? I’m not mocking you, I’m just interested in why you would go after the more proposterous allegations rather than siding with the vast majority of witnesses. I work for one of your larger electronics companies and they are very logical.
    Kind regards,
    Esteban

    • Jonathan permalink
      October 7, 2009 5:58 pm

      Well Esteban, we wanted to use a nuclear device to blow up one of our aircraft carriers in the Persian gulf. We would have faked a suicide bombing scenario like the USS Cole a few years ago. It would have been much easier, impossible to trace and generated much the same outrage without all the damage to the city. But, we opted for television drama over subtlety.

      Sincerely yours,

      Adam Weishaupt IV,
      Director of Conspiracy Plans and Policy,
      Illuminati Headquarters,
      Brussels Belgium.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 8, 2009 12:59 am

        Jonathan
        Now I am jealous that I did not come up with that.

  19. Judy permalink
    October 7, 2009 6:46 pm

    David S.
    My brain is hurting and I am growing increasingly alarmed at the level of delusions expressed on this post. I am sending over a dozen straightjackets. Use liberally as needed.I am going to take 2 aspirin and go rest up. Those flying saucers from Mars are expected to do a fly by later on and I want to take incredibley blurrey, shaken photos of them. See ya later.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 8, 2009 1:03 am

      Judy do not forget you have to use a black and white Poloroid.

  20. October 7, 2009 6:55 pm

    Esteban,
    Your video had a lot of words/opinion. Your video claims 136 people claim they “SAW A PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON.” But NOT ONE WOULD SAY THIS ON VIDEO? Show me a video of one of these witnesses SAYING THEY SAW A PLANE HIT…Your video is hearsay not an actual person describing what they saw!

    How about a VIDEO OF SOMEONE SAYING WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING… I did, you merely pointed to a video of WORDS written by someone named RSOwen.

    Edward C. Noonan

    • October 7, 2009 7:08 pm

      I posted a link above refuting this Truther Crackpot non-argument.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 8, 2009 1:37 am

      Okay setting the well deserved ridicule aside it I believe is obvious to everyone by now that Edward has some difficulties and problems. I fer we are only feeding his mental problems and may be doing more harm to the brain cell he has left. You see it does not matter to him that the plane hit the ground then slid into the Pentagon which was a much more difficult target than the towers he over looks that. so for those that has not reconized it by now Edward has a mental problem and nothing you say is going to make any difference. It does not matter that the FBI and NSA were able to construct a complete trail of the Hijackers all the way to the point where they boarded the plane and the radio transmissions from the pilots and the phone calls do not matter not even the phone call to the Solicitor General of the US from his wife a well known atty and telivision personality. It was all planned down to these minute details. People have you not gotten it this man is insane.

  21. Louie723 permalink
    October 7, 2009 9:19 pm

    Keith wrote – ”…don’t know the engineer that designed the world trade center buildings designed them to withstand a category 3 hurricane.”

    Hurricanes don’t dump burning jet fuel down elevator shafts.

    ”You can’t explain how a plane can hit the top of the twin towers and cause a gas line to explode in building 7 which was a block away, how come no other buildings gas lines exploded causing multiple colapses.”

    FDNY Chief Frank Fellini said, “Building number 7 had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell, it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the façade. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing.”

    ”The seismograph reports did pick up multiple blasts”

    Arthur Lerner-Lam, seismologist at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory stated, “There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers,”

    Protec Documentation Services, a company that specializes in monitoring demolitions, said that they had field seismographs in “several sites in Manhattan and Brooklyn” on 9/11, and that they detected no spikes that would indicate explosions in the towers.

    ”I would believe an engineer or explosives expert before i would believe a CRACKPOT…with no expertise…?”

    Exactly…

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 8, 2009 2:18 am

      Louie
      Very good job and great facts but it will not make any difference to the crack pot. Any evidence that is brought forward and would be understood and excepted by a normal person this screw ball will search until he can find some idiotic way around the facts. For instance he will probably reply so there just happened to be seismologist in the city and demolition documenting service there as well? ( In my best Saturday Night Live voice) How convenient! You see they are all part of the plot and so is the fire department all recruited by that simpleton BOOSH and Cheney. If only Edward Noonan could have been in charge of the investigation the truth would have prevailed. Get the point? Once again CooCoo CooCoo.

      • Louie723 permalink
        October 8, 2009 8:46 pm

        Well you are right Jack. I have talked with truthers before and it doesn’t matter, they are going to believe what they want. And then they declare themselves winner of the debate.

        • Jack Hampton permalink
          October 9, 2009 3:49 am

          Yep
          I talked to one as well then they caught him and took him back to the home.

  22. OoglyBoogly permalink
    October 8, 2009 12:53 am

    That burning hot jet fuel, eh? The stuff that didn’t exist at the crash site in Shanksville? The stuff that left paper books unscathed in the debris at the Pentagon? The stuff that you claim was so hot it weakened the steel of three skyscrapers, even though one of them wasn’t even hit by a plane? It couldn’t have been that hot – poor old Edna Cintron was able to stand in the hole the plane went in at the top of WTC1 and wave for help! Coo Coo back at you! 😛

  23. October 8, 2009 8:55 am

    To Poor Jack Hampton,
    via Poor, Poor David Swindle,

    You are so trusting in the Popular Mechanics article. But when the so-called reporter, editor/researcher appeared on a radio show in Arizona, the talk show host tore the idiot up. He could not defend his lies when asked to do so in person. I am confident you both would fall into the same boat… You sure haven’t done much to dispel the charges that I have made.

    You can read the DEBUNKING THE POPULAR MECHANICS DEBUNKER at:
    http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060826165457842

    I agree that your silly Popular Mechanics article had a couple of photos that possibily show that a jumbo jet crashed into the Pentagon. But the small pieces of fuselage seemed much too thin to be part of an aircraft that cruises as 36,000 feet (over 5 miles) above us.

    And please read:
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm

    You will read: “…Popular Mechanics has re-entered the media circus in an attempt to continue its 9/11 debunking campaign that began in March of last year. A new book claims to expose the myths of the 9/11 truth movement, yet it is Popular Mechanics who have been exposed as promulgating falsehoods while engaging in nepotism, shoddy research and agenda-driven politics. ”

    “It comes as no surprise that Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Corporation. As fictionalized in Orson Welles’ acclaimed film Citizen Kane, William Randolph Hearst wrote the book on cronyism and yellow journalism and Popular Mechanics hasn’t bucked that tradition.”

    “The magazine is a cheerleader for the sophistication of advanced weaponry and new technology used by police in areas such as crowd control and ‘anti-terror’ operation. A hefty chunk of its advertising revenue relies on the military and defense contractors. Since the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq and in the future Iran all cite 9/11 as a pretext, what motivation does the magazine have to conduct a balanced investigation and risk upsetting its most coveted clientele?”

    “Popular Mechanics’ March 2005 front cover story was entitled ‘Debunking 9/11 Lies’ and has since become the bellwether reference point for all proponents of the official 9/11 fairytale.”

    “Following the publication of the article and its exaltation by the mainstream media as the final nail in the coffin for 9/11 conspiracy theories, it was revealed that senior researcher on the piece Benjamin Chertoff is the cousin of Michael Chertoff, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.”

    “This means that Benjamin Chertoff was hired to write an article that would receive nationwide attention, about the veracity of the government’s explanation of an event that led directly to the creation of Homeland Security, a body that his own cousin now heads.”

    “This is unparalleled nepotism and completely dissolves the credibility of the article before one has even turned the first page…”

    There is more, but you get the drift.

    Go ahead and believe the cousin of Chertoff…but I for one, distrust most of what M. Chertoff says… especially when he says Soetoro is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. If M. Chertoff was a Federal Judge, he sure didn’t know the law!

    Edward C. Noonan

    • October 8, 2009 9:13 am

      In resorting to ad hominem argumentation (trying to undermine a source’s credibility) the Truther Crackpot further reveals that he is impervious to reason. Further evidence of the logical fallacies of Conspiracist Crackpots.

      http://newsrealblog.com/2009/09/20/salon-screeches-intellectual-ad-hominems-in-smear-of-beck-horowitz-and-conservatism/

      Show them pictures of parts of the plane that hit the pentagon and the testimony of people who handled the bodies of the plane’s crew and it’s not good enough. NOTHING can be good enough for them.

      If anyone needed any additional evidence that reasoned debate is pointless then this is it.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 8, 2009 12:03 pm

      Edward Noonan
      I do not know how to thank you. You are a true hero of the Republic. I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say we do not know what we would have done had you not come along. We are sp greatful. But am am sure it is past time for your meds. Oh when you are done with this will you please find that gunman on the grassly knoll. We admire you so much. Well have a nice day and come back real soon with your next visit to the hospital library.

    • Stavros permalink
      October 8, 2009 9:47 pm

      Ed is quoting Alex Jones to us? Please. This guy is famous mostly for manipulating video in order to ‘prove’ his crackpot theories. I remember one Jones video of a military exercise in which civilians had been hired to play-act captured terrorists, and Alex claimed that they were really being held and interrogated under martial law. Just one example of why Alex Jones isn’t worth watching, except for entertainment purposes.

      So Ed, I hear you got 0.7% of the vote last time you ran for election. Nice job.

  24. October 8, 2009 9:08 am

    When is 2 plus 2 not 4?

    A math teacher says 2 plus 2 is 4. How do you undermine his statement?

    First, you personalize it. Refer to the teacher as a “mather”

    Then you unload on “mathers” with ridicule (rigid, boring, lack of imagination, etc) without ever touching the issue/facts.

    This is a strategy taught in Alinskys Rules for Radicals.

    You guys learn quickly!

    Edward C. Noonan

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 8, 2009 12:05 pm

      Edward
      Your problem is you never learned. Take the thorazine and shuffle on.

  25. October 8, 2009 9:59 am

    http://newsrealblog.com/2009/09/20/salon-screeches-intellectual-ad-hominems-in-smear-of-beck-horowitz-and-conservatism/

    I just read the piece you claimed would prove I am a crackpot. Sorry, but your rambling article didn’t prove much of anything. You merely proved that Glenn Beck (like myself) knew, and admired W. Cleon Skousen. All three of us are Mormons…so maybe this REALLY makes us CRACKPOTS?

    Your writing show that you have been indoctrinated by your high school and college classes…you sound left, lean left and write left. I bet you are even left handed.

    Skousen, Beck and I are opposite of your views so we must be on the RIGHT. Skousen was a member of the CONSTITUTION PARTY before he died and was a CONSTITUTIONALIST. You can mock him all you want (like Salon magazine did) but that is the way it is.

    You still have fallen short of PROVING anything about 9/11. You merely attack ME and not the debate before us.

    definition: ad hominem

    Main Entry: ad ho·mi·nem
    Pronunciation: \(ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem, -nəm\
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: New Latin, literally, to the person
    Date: 1598
    1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
    2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

    You clearly have not presented an intellectal debate, but instead, present an attack on my character with your AD HOMINEM ATTACKS.

    You need to bone up on your debating skills.

    Edward C. Noonan
    Chairman – Yuba County American Independent Party
    National Committee Member: America’s Independent Party
    Founder – CA Mormon Battalion
    Former 2006-2008 State Party Chairman – American Independent Party
    Former 2006 Candidate/Governor – State of California
    Former 2002 Candidate/Secretary of State – State of California
    Candidate 2010 – U.S. Senate

    • October 8, 2009 10:14 am

      The piece shows that people who use ad hominem argumentation can’t be reasoned with. You must’ve missed that point.

      I actually like Skousen. (And I’ve written several articles defending Beck. And I have Mormon friends who I care for dearly.) I just got done reading the 5000 Year Leap and was going to write another rebuttal to Salon talking about how they lied about Leap.

      And when you accuse me of being a leftist you only sound more foolish. You do understand that I’m the editor of this site and employed by the Freedom Center don’t you? And that part of this site’s job is to connect people with that Discover The Networks site that you love so much.

      You’re just totally addicted to ad hominem argumentation and are thus incapable of being reasoned with.

      Further, my series is not about 9/11 conspiracy theories. It’s about the conspiracist mindset of which you’re possessed. It’s about explaining how conspiracy thinkers think. So it doesn’t surprise me that you’d be unable to understand it. But I’m delighted that you’ve shown up because with every comment that you make you’re just reinforcing the analysis in my series.

      • Brent Smith permalink
        October 8, 2009 10:54 am

        I for one would like to welcome our new frequent 3rd party candidate conspiracy driven overlord.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 8, 2009 12:10 pm

      Edward
      It is obvious that you were or have not been very sucessful in those roles. Did your own family members vote for you ? I am done with this idiocy. This guy is beyond reason. However Mr. Swindle he is the perfect axample of the crack pots that you alluded to. He made your point very well.

    • In the know permalink
      October 8, 2009 1:04 pm

      “You need to bone up on your debating skills.”-

      I believe you mean “hone”. Why do we have to deal with this? I think it’s all of the radioactive fallout in the desert. People really are nuts. One question for you Mr. ex-candidate. Why does this matter anymore in the face of the real threats to our freedom and way of life? Why is this so important when we have to deal with the potential of a hyper inflated dollar, collapse of our economy and a miriad host of other REAL issues facing us today? Put your ferver and passion in to fighting this problem now. And don’t attach yourself to Beck. It’s bad for the greater good.

  26. Esteban Cafe, World permalink
    October 8, 2009 10:31 am

    As to Mormons in general, I have always been impressed with their open minds and willingness to discuss topics without the typical heat one finds from Mr. Noonan. Sir, you do a disservice to your religion and your compatriots with your strident tone; hopefully this is not part of your testimony to others concerning your faith. A gentle and kind presentation of your views will provoke the thought that your provocations never can. Can’t we all just get along?

  27. Esteban Cafe, World permalink
    October 8, 2009 10:39 am

    One other point. Ad hominem, directly translated is, “to the MAN.” Maybe it’s the feminization of our language that has neutered this and given us “to the person”? One of those subtle multicultural under currents that change even the translation of language? I don’t know, but I thought it was a (small) but interesting point.

    • October 8, 2009 11:07 am

      In this context what’s important is that an ad hominem argument is when one tries to nullify an idea by attacking the person making it. It’s universally regarded as an obvious logical fallacy. That’s what Noonan did when presented with the Popular Mechanics argument

      Noonan is going to try and argue that I’m doing that with my series. I’m not. My series is not about disproving the ideas of the 9/11 Truther conspiracists (something that can never actually be done to the Truthers’ satisfaction,) it’s about understanding the mindset that creates them and realizing that it’s futile to try and engage them. Because as Noonan shows, he isn’t thinking rationally. He employs ad hominem arguments and actually thinks they’re legitimate.

  28. Keith permalink
    October 8, 2009 1:46 pm

    I saw a video with the owner of the world trade center building 7 saying there’s been a great loss of life, and said pull it, and they watch the building colapse to the ground I can upload the video on utube for anyone that needs proof….?

  29. October 8, 2009 3:16 pm

    Poor David Swindle (a.k.a. Official Fairy Tale Supporter)

    Rebuttal of the Day?

    DEFINE REBUTTAL:
    “”any evidence that repels, counteracts or disproves evidence given by a witness,” 158 P. 2d 799, 803; “that which explains away, contradicts, or otherwise refutes the adverse party’s evidence ‘by any process which consists merely in diminishing or negating the force’ of it.” 202 N.W. 896, 898. Rebuttal evidence is offered to contradict other evidence or to rebut a presumption of fact.”

    You and your slur-makers have done little to give REBUTTALS to my REBUTTALS. You merely point to the Popular Mechanics Magazine as your bible and I rebutted that. There has been little else you have offered to strenghten your position that TRUTHERS or BIRTHERS are a sub-human species as you seem to claim.

    You bemoan that I am UNRATIONAL…yet you cannot point out where I am being irrational.

    You mock me as a TRUTHER…so that makes you an ANTI-TRUTHER?

    Once again, I’ll give you more evidence of your OFFICIAL FAIRY TALE fallacy.

    Please view the PANORAMIC webpage of the morning of the 9/11 incident at the Pentagon. You must SCROLL RIGHT (not down). There is one photo (in middle of the aerial photos) of the damage to the Pentagon with a Boeing 767 super imposed on the crash site. (see question #5). Please show/prove a jumbo jet hit that building… See:

    http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

    And too, please note in the ph0tos THERE IS NO DEBRIS ON THE LAWN. However, the debris does show up AFTER the FBI arrives. Either this, or the so-called debris was present only AFTER the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th floor collasped (10:10 a.m.). How could a jumbo jet make a hole only in the first floor when a jumbo jet is nearly 2-3 stories high (43.8 ft high)? I am assuming the Pentagon would have 10+ foot ceilings so 43.6 feet would be about 3 stories.

    See: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/damage/punch-in.jpg

    If you still believe your OFFICIAL FAIRY TALE STORY then there is nothing left for us to discuss.

    Edward C. Noonan

    • October 8, 2009 3:40 pm

      There is nothing left for us to discuss. There never was anything to discuss to begin with. You can go back to your vanity candidacies. Good luck with that senate race.

      • October 8, 2009 3:45 pm

        Everyone be sure and observe how Noonan is monologuing, not dialoguing. He’s like a crackpot standing on the street corner preaching. He’s not a rational person engaging in discussion and debate. And there’s no reason for him to debate. He has the TRUTH.

        • Jonathan permalink
          October 9, 2009 3:26 am

          I don’t get it. I’m monologuing right back at him in long rambling anti-truther rebuttal texts, and this guy won’t respond to them. He wants to play, he says. I’m giving it to him, and it’s being lost in the ether. I don’t get it. And I’m hurt.

          • Jack Hampton permalink
            October 9, 2009 3:33 am

            Jonathan
            It is probably lost in his single brain cell that is shared by Keith.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 9, 2009 2:39 am

        Mr. Swindle
        Is it not about time to give this gentleman less attention. I mean it is your call but I can practice my stand up comedy routine on something else. Iam practicing this routine to supplement my social security This poor delusional individual will be screaming this nutty screed when they roll him off to lunch in the wheel chair. Let him regale the other inmates in the institution with his lunacy while we move on to more reasonable pursuits. Respectfully.

        • Jack Hampton permalink
          October 9, 2009 2:45 am

          I believe he is a failed Prom Queen canidate as well and that is the source of his shall we say problem? Okay Swemson did you drag this guy in here so you could sit back and laugh at all of us?

    • Jonathan permalink
      October 8, 2009 4:05 pm

      I’m bored, so I’ll argue with you. But just this once. I can’t resist.

      Let’s look at the old “hole size doesn’t match airplane size” argument.

      As a former military photography and videography specialist in the USAF, I had unfortunate opportunity to be on scene at numerous aircraft accidents to document crash sites, debris fields and clean up efforts to support official investigations.

      On one particular Sunday morning in Fort Worth Texas, I was called to the base when a two-seater fighter jet (reservist) nose dived into the runway at over 400 miles per hour from an altitude of a few hundred feet. The pilot was circling over the base when something went wrong. The plane rolled onto its back and then went straight down into the ground, barely missing a row of bombers and tankers.

      This particular plane was about 40 feet long, about as wide as a semi truck where the wings attach to the fuselage.

      The hole it made in the ground was about the size of a Mini Cooper, with some miscellaneous gouges and scars. Most of the cockpit was buried about 10 feet in the ground. There were no human remains bigger than a quarter. No aircraft parts bigger than a basketball. Most of the mess was confined to a small area, but there was a general debris field “ovalled out” in the direction of travel and force. No burn marks, no fire damage, nothing but fresh tilled dirt looking like grand dad’s cornfield. The plane disintegrated in a big poof of exploding jet fuel. And that was pretty typical. I went to dozens of fighter crash sites in 15 years just like this, and “sudden-stop” impacts like this are always pretty much the same. There is nothing much left.

      My colleague shot the video of the Russian fighter that crashed at the Paris Air Show back in the early 90s. Watch the video. The plane appears to vanish into the ground. That’s because it is disintegrating like a fly hitting a windshield. Another colleague shot video (never released) of the big Ramstein air show disaster of… 1989 (I think it was). That crash was bit different, in that the impact was between jets hitting each other and then ricocheting into the ground in various ways. The parts left over were bigger, and the mess was very much spread out, but the impact points were the same in general: total annihalation.

      The same thing happened to this airliner that hit the Pentagon. It’s kinetic energy allowed it to punch through some heavy reinforced concrete to a certain degree, but much of the velocity deflected on the ground. What hit the wall disintegrated in the impact and blew apart from the explosion. Much of the surviving debris was INSIDE the building and/or went through it. I am told that one landing gear punched through the building completely into the center courtyard.

      I knew numerous people who were working in the Pentagon that day, as my career field has a large office in the building. The Pentagon is the central collecting point for military photography from around the world. It was a classic aircraft crash.

      Relatively speaking, an airplane is about as flimsy as a kite. It is about 1/8 inch of skin stretched over a skeleton. It is not built for demolition derby.

      However, on the flip side, any conspiracist would certainly be smart enough to recognize the drawbacks of calling a missile strike a plane crash. The idiotic contradiction you raise is that there is an airplane unaccounted for. And, why not crash a plane into the Pentagon if you do it in three other places as well? Especially if one is using the “crazy fanatical hijacker” scenario to justify things.

    • Jonathan permalink
      October 8, 2009 4:22 pm

      To continue on…

      The photos in your link show exactly what I would expect to see. A big hole through the building that corresponds to the width of the fuselage. The first part of the plane to hit the building had the full kinetic energy to knock the wall down and continue on. Blowing apart and exploding as it did so, in the space of a 1000th of a second.

      The wings never hit the building in one piece. The engines of the plane gouged into the earth and they sheared off at some point. The plane was low enough after all to rip down light poles and destroy cars and gouge up the earth. If the wings were intact when they hit the building, they disintegrated. Wings don’t have the kinetic energy and the rigidity to make a lot of damage. They fold back with the impact and buckle into the fuselage as pieces. Or they disintegrate and blow apart.

      Bear in mind. You have forward velocity coupled with radial explosive forces. But always, the direction of motion of the plane carries the debris into an oval patterned field in the direction of impact motion.

      The tail made no mark on the building because it was gone and also because the tail of the plane never made it into the building in one piece. It disintegrated and/or was annihalated. But I’d wager you money that bits and pieces and identifiable parts of tail section were all over the place in the building and through it. But even if it did go into the building, as you question: well, the entire section of building is gone. There was nothing there for the tail to leave a mark on. And by the way, fire damage extends on both sides of the hole for about the same length as the wings would be. And there’s big fire. Guess what made that damage? Wing fuel tanks, disintegrating and exploding against the wall of the building.

      Most of the plane was annihalated. It would be stupid not to crash a military plane into a building full of military experts and try to fake it out. I would wager that there are more AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT EXPERTS working in the Pentagon than in any other place on earth. You can’t fool them. And neither can you make them all part of the conspiracy.

  30. Keith permalink
    October 8, 2009 4:02 pm

    Go to utube and punch up world trade center owner confessions.you will get it straight from the horses mouth…..WHY DON.T YOU WATCH THE VIDEO, ARE YOU SCARED OF WHAT YOU MIGHT FIND OUT.
    IGNORANCE IS TO IGNORE THE TRUTH,THE TRUTH SCARES SOME PEOPLE.
    TO DEATH….YOU ARE NOT VERY CONVINCING, YOU’LL HAVE TO DO BETTER THAN THAT.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 9, 2009 2:57 am

      Keith
      I am really afraid of your caps. Take our word for it, YOU ARE INSANE and just go away or let me suggest that you do a daily sit in at your local FBI office accusing them and his Holliness the Pope of being part of this conspiracy. But have fun spiting and flinging buggers at the nurses and the aids. Oh are you and Edward in the same room and is he like strapped into his chair and wearing a football helmet?

    • In the know permalink
      October 9, 2009 7:28 am

      Your all caps is BS. You should be banned for lack of coherent, cojent conversation. In fact, David probably lets you guys babble on because it makes his case. Not once have you provided EMPIRICAL data to back up your claims. You respond to verifiable, factual, logical arguments with heresay and conjecture. You assert this as undeniable TRUTH and clearly don’t even read what you respond to. Enjoy KNOWING that the trade centers were bombed from within because a video on youtube shows a guy saying “pull it” proves it. Meanwhile, the rest of us will stand up for your right to be a moron. We will suffer and some of us will (and have) die knowing that we are protecting the very people who stab us in the back.

      Sincerely,
      A patriot who is tired of getting stabbed in the back by the people he fights to defend.

      • Jonathan permalink
        October 9, 2009 1:34 pm

        Oh, it’s much worse than that for you fanatical deniers of the TRUTH!!!!!!!!!

        I have an unreleased video clip made exactly 5 years after the WTC attacks on Sept 11, 2006 and it shows George Bush at a housewarming party for some friend of his daughter. You see the kitchen and here’s this big group of laughing people. And you see the doorway from the living room and here come’s George Bush with a big cake in his arms walking in.

        Well, he is carrying this big beautiful flat cake into the kitchen to present it to the group of happy partygoers, and… this is clearly divine intervention here…

        … Bush trips on the threshold of the doorway coming into the kitchen. The cake goes flying and hits the floor in a big pile of gooey mush and everybody is laughing.

        And you know what Bush says??????????????????????????????

        He looks up, and the SOB has a big Skull and Bones Society grin on his face… and he says…

        “I guess I’ve really BOMBED IT AGAIN on the big day, honey! I’m so sorry! Mia Culpa!”

        Yeah! I’m so torn up that you dropped the cake, Georgie Boy! Gee. We might have to send the butler and chauffer out for carry out Chinese now.

        • Jack Hampton permalink
          October 10, 2009 2:11 am

          Johnathan
          You know from an article I read The Bush’s live a pretty simple life for people of there means. They have one person that helps them full time in there home and another that comes in on occasion. Hell my wife has a lady that come in 3 days a week. Bush drives him self. but of course they have Secret Service protestion and he has a secratary. Very simple compared to most ex prezes an people of there means.

          • In the know permalink
            October 12, 2009 7:30 am

            Jack,

            That was satire from Jonathan. He was poking fun at the truther logic that 9/11 was an inside job because of the “pull it” video on youtube.

            • Jack Hampton permalink
              October 12, 2009 11:14 am

              I must admit I do not watch the videos because I cannot hear them. Thank you for the heads up.

  31. Brent permalink
    October 8, 2009 5:03 pm

    “There has been little else you have offered to strenghten your position that TRUTHERS or BIRTHERS are a sub-human species as you seem to claim.”

    First of all I don’t think anyone ever used or believes conspiracy nuts are subhuman, just crazy. i.e. Uncle Artie can’t stop telling everyone that the end is near and Elvis is alive and running the country from a bus station bathroom in Wichita we don’t put him down like a dog we just don’t invite him to Thanksgiving dinner. Second of all you make David’s actual point with every post. David knew that if he wrote a series of pieces about conspiracy theorists they couldn’t help themselves from showing everyone what he was talking about.

    • October 8, 2009 5:07 pm

      Haha. Thanks Brent. Maybe we should start referring to Noonan as Uncle Ed.

  32. Jack Hampton permalink
    October 9, 2009 2:59 am

    opps, I meant boogers.

  33. Jack Hampton permalink
    October 9, 2009 3:03 am

    Brent
    Very good post but in fairness I did that comment first. I want a prize. I think I will make my self General of the Kentucky Irregular Long R.ifles. Surely you guys have Heard of them?

  34. Jonathan permalink
    October 9, 2009 1:40 pm

    Gee. Isn’t anyone going to give me any attention for my two long anti-TRUTHER diatribes? Where are you Ed? I thought they sounded pretty good and I didn’t scream in all caps either.

  35. Keith permalink
    October 10, 2009 1:48 am

    Some of the experts (engineers) say that no fire could have brought the twin towers down at free fall speed, because the fires only can reach 1500 degrees fahrenheit, and the steel beams can’t melt untill it reaches 3000 degrees fahrenheit .The only thing can melt metal is something called thermite which can reach temperatures up to 4000 degrees.
    When they where cleaning up the wreckage, they saw molted metal at towers 1-2 and towers 7. Even an FBI agent atmitted the fact that they knew,and by the way thermite is hight tech, it’s made only in military weapon labs. So unless your engineers or experts,your theories doesn’t hold up, and i’m not impressed.I don’t know why you all think your smarter than them.

    • October 10, 2009 5:11 am

      “I don’t know why you all think your smarter than them.”

      Maybe because we’ve figured out the difference between”your” and “you’re” and you have not.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 10, 2009 5:44 am

        Sir
        I am actually schocked Mr. Swindle that you can grow weary of stupidty.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 10, 2009 5:19 am

      Keith
      I know I am probably wasting my time but here goes. First I have arrested and aided in the prosecution of more people than you will ever know some were very large multi state investigations. Your comment that only thermite can melt metal is simply false. You can melt metal with many things starting with coal and a simple bellows. The Japanese used charcoal. You can also use what is referred to as WP or White Phosphorus. I have used that to melt large artillery pieces like 175 an 8 inch self propelled howitzers in the tube, engine and breech when I served in the military during the Vietnam War. You can also use Arc Welders and plain old welding set and any number of chemicals.

      Now listen here it comes, the support beams did not have to be melted only weakened the jet fuel burning with the building blown open to the pretty high wind at that altitude can create an above average heat from fire fueled by anything much less jet fuel. Some of the support beams were by elevators which would have made it even worse as a matter of fact the heat would have been horrendous. The weight from the floors above were simply to much for the weakened structures and they started collapsing pan caking down ward gathering force as each floor fell. I will not go into the facts regarding blow back and concussion as they fell because as I said I am probably wasting my time. Now no FBI agent has admitted anything of the kind.

      Let us go back to the investigations I spoke of above you cannot keep a multi state investigation that involves forty to fifty people secret much less the numbers that would be required to accomplish the conspiracy you claim occurred. There were people that survived the event that witnessed the planes striking the buildings it was on film. We also know there is no question as to the identity of the people that commandeered the planes how do you suggest the government agents coordinated the attack with the terrorist and your alleged timed detonation? Next what would be the motive for this vile act that you believe was perpetrated or aided by your fellow countrymen also do you believe that the thousands of men and women employed by all the investigative services of this country would be silent if they had any suspicion that your claim might have any validity or is all these very professional and highly motivated people stupid and only you and a small minority of amateurs know the truth?

      Next I had dinner with a very good friend last night that is also a very successful engineer his company has done work on a contract basis for the Corp of Engineers and even work on sub pens not to mention thousands of private projects. When I mentioned this to him he used the same word Mr. Swindle did crackpots. I took the time to do this in the hope that UN like Edward you might be reasonable and would not want to be an embarrassment to yourself and your family.

    • Jonathan permalink
      October 10, 2009 7:05 am

      Why don’t you ask the engineers if the steel beams could hold up the building when lots of them are removed violently and the full weight of the floors above come to rest on the just the two corners of the structure. And then the whole thing is lit up with 100,000 gallons of burning jet fuel and fanned by high winds circulating in a giant tubular space, burning a bunch of highly combustible stuff.

  36. Keith permalink
    October 10, 2009 2:19 am

    Anybody can make themselves sound good,a salesman can make you believe your getting a good deal when your really not. I know plenty of them.I only go with evidence and fact’s,If your theory is correct there should have been more building colapses other than Larry Silversteins buildings towers 1-2 and 7. All the buildings in between didn’t colapse with the earthquake trembles and gas explosions from the twin towers as you say.
    COME ON.

    • Jonathan permalink
      October 10, 2009 7:09 am

      There “should have been” more collapses?

      Like the time the Russian airliner blew up at 35,000 feet. A stewardess fell to the ground inside the wreakage of the tail and she “should have been” killed. But she survived.

      But then again, nobody survived the Lockerbie bombing.

      What can say what “should have been” except God himself?

  37. November 19, 2009 2:26 am

    I almost blew up giving birth- er, does that count?

    LOL

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