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NewsReal’s Victory: Marc Lamont Hill Has Been Held Accountable

October 17, 2009
Fox dealt with Marc Lamont Hill the same way President Obama responded to the Van Jones story.

Fox dealt with Marc Lamont Hill the same way President Obama responded to the Van Jones story.

Our motto at NewsReal is “Keeping The Cable Guys Honest.”

We seek to challenge pundits and newsmakers to stand up for the arguments they make and the facts they choose to report. Individuals are free to put forth whatever ideas they want — but they are not free to do so with impunity. Those who promote intolerable, offensive ideas backed by questionable facts must be confronted.

Given yesterday’s revelation that Dr. Marc Lamont Hill was fired from his position as a paid contributor to Fox News it appears we’re doing our job. After weeks of ignoring our invitations to defend his radical views, Hill has finally been held accountable for the positions he’s taken over the course of his career.

While NewsReal broke the story of Hill’s radicalism on September 27, David Horowitz actually  first blogged about Hill on the 25th. The point of the initial post was

The image of Assata Shakur, a "Freedom Fighter" according to Marc Lamont Hill

The image of Assata Shakur, a "Freedom Fighter" according to Marc Lamont Hill

not about Hill’s ideology but his qualifications to be a pundit on the subject of Iran. (The professor specializes in hip-hop culture.) This brought a counterattack from Hill on, of all places, his Twitter page. Upon arriving at Hill’s site a solemn face covered the background. A little digging soon revealed just who it was this Fox News contributor was promoting: convicted cop killer and anti-American radical fugitive Assata Shakur.

This revelation prompted additional research by NewsReal and, more importantly, Accuracy In Media’s Cliff Kincaid. In a series of posts Kincaid dug deeper into Hill’s radical past, completely tearing off the “liberal” mask to reveal an apologist and promoter of a long list of totalitarian radicals.

It’s here where the story gets especially interesting and where the central issue of intellectual honesty emerges. Hill’s response to being challenged for his positions was to ignore his critics. He failed to respond to our public invitations, ignored the email I sent him, and then went to work scrubbing his websites. He changed his Twitter background, modified his website, and deleted his Myspace page.  In other words, he sought to perpetuate the intellectual fraud which had initially landed him with his lucrative Fox News gig.

This is something the Left is forced to do. They have to hide their true agenda in order to sneak it into the public consciousness. (It’s why Michael Moore has to rename communism as “democracy.”) America does not want to be transformed into the Socialist Utopia which Hill and other leftists are working to create. America does not want Shakur, Mumia Abu-Jamal, and Ward Churchill to be considered heroes or respectable intellectuals.

Within our political culture there is a range of acceptable opinion. This should not be a controversial observation. There are certain people whose views are so way out there that they cannot be integrated into the debate. There’s no reason to tolerate anti-Semites, crackpot conspiracists, and totalitarians at the table of respectable discussion. We could not even if we wanted to. Some people operate from a mental state that is so fundamentally different — so warped — that it’s all but impossible for constructive dialogue to take place.

It’s akin to two scientists working on a cure for disease when one of them rejects germ theory. Such a project  simply cannot work and will only waste everyone’s time.

That’s why Hill had to go. And if you disagree with me then chances are you really do not understand just how far out there Hill’s views — and especially those of the figures he defends — actually are.

One final note: instrumental in this victory were the tips, independent support, and research of NewsReal’s readers. We thank all of you. Please stick with us and continue with your participation as we continue to pursue our mission. You are a vital member of the NewsReal Team.

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61 Comments
  1. Rachelle Young permalink
    October 17, 2009 12:00 pm

    News like this gives me the little remaining hope I have left for America.

    I thought it was clear that Hill was an intellectual lightweight the moment I first heard him speak. After that, I switched channels or muted the television whenever he appeared.

    Apparently just being stupid isn’t enough to keep one from being an authority on something on cable. But fortunately, being a frothing radical is still enough to cost someone his job. At least it is on Fox News, on some of the other networks being able honestly to put ‘Nut’ on your CV may be a plus.

    Thank goodness for the work you and others have done for unmasking Hill.

    • Barry Bonds permalink
      October 17, 2009 1:06 pm

      Pathetic.

      I guess in your mind Bill Oreilly is a rocket scientist because of his polticial views. As if poltical views is reflective of your intellect.

      Marc Lamont Hill is the low hanging fruit. What you really want is the President. You’ll never get him and that should keep you up at night.

      • swemson permalink
        October 17, 2009 6:43 pm

        We won’t have to “get him”… he’s going to “get himself”…

        His dishonesty and deceit is finally becoming evident to the American people…

        Too bad you’ll never allow yourself to see that !

        A mind truly is a terrible thing to waste….

      • October 17, 2009 10:53 pm

        “You’ll never get him.”

        Please explain this, BB. What do you imply? That the president is so entrenched in power that he’s politically invincible? That the White House will shut down all and any criticism by any means possible? It does keep me awake at night, BB. I keep seeing visions of Berlin 1933.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 18, 2009 6:16 am

        Barry Buns
        2012 will be it as I stated earlier he is making people pine for the heady days of Jimmy Carter. Also are you seriously saying a man that supports killers should be put forth as credible on anything? While I am not a big O’Really fan he is intellectually head and shoulders above Mr. Hill. By the way are you a rap artist?

  2. Cary permalink
    October 17, 2009 12:34 pm

    The big problem that exists….this radical, nutcase is still active in a university, indoctrinating our kids….

    • Barry Bonds permalink
      October 17, 2009 1:03 pm

      Good!

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 18, 2009 6:20 am

        BB
        Good for what? A tragic laugh.

  3. Rick permalink
    October 17, 2009 12:38 pm

    Why do you not get after O’reilly for saying he has seen the Birth Certificate which we know to be false. Fox skirts around the issue of the BC and in an episode I saw O’reilly condemn those who beleive there is justification that Obama has not been upfront with the American people about his B.C… Obama himself has admitted to being born in Kenya in an article just released. Obama also admitted to being the Son of a Kenyan citizen. Look hiding this crap is just proving the point and its confusing as to why the news media espcecially Fox news doesn’t get on this! What is it they are afraid of ? n0tb0rnhere0bama@aim.com email me and let me know your thought on this?

    • October 17, 2009 12:45 pm

      Well this is rather off-topic but I suppose I’ll allow it…

      My opinion on “Birthers” is pretty identical to Ann Coulter’s:
      http://newsrealblog.com/2009/07/26/fox-ann-coulter-tells-geraldo-that-birther-movement-just-a-few-cranks-out-there/

      Those who truly embrace Birtherism — as opposed to the merely curious questioners — fall into my definition of the Crackpot Conspiracist Mindset which I recently articulated in my five part series “Crackpot Chronicles”:
      http://newsrealblog.com/2009/10/04/crackpot-chronicles-van-jones-glenn-beck-ron-paul-rorschach-the-truthers-and-me-part-i/

      • Rick permalink
        October 18, 2009 9:52 am

        Your dead wrong and our country is being comprimised by this fool in office. Anne Coulter is a far right radical nut. If you beleive what she does then you too are one. I for one am a middle of the road type conservative. You cannot escape the real question here .. If there is nothing to hide (there is no resonable expectation of privicy for public officials) then why has’nt Obama released his true copy of his BC and why has he spent over a MILLION DOLLARS keeping “we the people from seeing and knowing about him” some transparency. You are wrong wrong wrong. It’s too bad you have had a wasted education. Those of you with blinders on are truely the ” enemies from within “. Obama is not a natural born citizen as defined by the constitution. Read this article by Mario Apuzo. http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?p=3917
        Have a great day.

        • October 18, 2009 10:12 am

          Better to be a “far right radical nut” (you’ve obviously read none of my writings on political ideology) than a conspiracist crackpot.

        • swemson permalink
          October 18, 2009 2:33 pm

          Rick:

          As you can see by my posts on the subject, I think there’s more than one possible reason for why he’s hiding his BC..

          Where you go astray, what I believe David has a problem with, is when you say:

          Obama is not a natural born citizen as defined by the constitution.

          … as if it were a fact….

          It may be proved to be a fact someday… but we don’t know that for sure yet…

          All we know, is that he’s intentionally trying to destroy America…

          You’ll have to excuse me now.. I need to get back into my foxhole…

    • swemson permalink
      October 17, 2009 7:07 pm

      The subject is simply too complex to put a simple answer on it…

      I think David’s and Ann’s position is based at least in part on the fact that, just like the 9/11 truthers, the birther’s theory simply seems too unlikely to even consider….. but when you put together all of the evidence, you have to admit that’s there far more evidence here, even if it’s anecdotal, than there is in the truther’s crazy premise.

      There is legitimate reason to question the legitimacy of his presidency as the following 5 year old Associated Press story shows:

      http://www.resistnet.com/forum/topics/huge-story-theyve-known-all

      And BHO’s unwillingness to show the docs and end the discussion, understandably makes many people suspicious, especially since he’s proved to be congenital liar about virtually everything else….

      I still say that there’s a far more likely reason why he’s hiding the real documents, and that’s to hide the real identity of his father.. who many believe was actually Frank Marshall Davis, a well known communist agitator, pornographer and admitted pedophile… He’s the “Frank” that barry referred to in his book..

      We see how BHO is trying to distance himself from the commie revolutionaries that Glenn Beck and others continue to expose in the White House… but remember, he campaigned as a moderate, completely deceiving all but a small group of his inner circle about who he was and what he actually stood for… IF, and there’s no proof of this that I can see of course, Davis is his actual father, it would have been virtually impossible for him to maintain his “moderate” charade during the campaign, and he probably could have never even made it into the senate.

      So look at the evidence, and you decide for yourselves….. BHO’s mother was white, & his father was black.. right ?

      So which one looks like his father to you..

      http://www.tncd.com/ebs/dad.jpg

      And if you come to the same conclusion as I, then google Frank Marshall Davis and read everything you can find….

      I don’t believe one word that this POS has said since he first appeared on the national political scene… And I think a safe way to determine what the truth about anything related to him is, is to listen to what he says, and then believe the opposite.

      • October 17, 2009 7:26 pm

        (Rolls eyes.) Surely there are more productive things you could do with your time than play around with Quasi-Birtherism…

        • swemson permalink
          October 17, 2009 8:35 pm

          As you’ll note, I’m not saying that I believe either..

          What I am saying, is that there ARE legitimate reasons to question the entire birth certificate issue, and that rather than believing that he wasn’t born in America, I think that IF something fishy IS going on here, it’s more likely
          to be the identity of his real father, rather than where he was born….

          Look at the photo in the second link, and you tell me that he doesn’t look a hell of a lot more like Davis (on the left) than Obama on the right… Look at their hairline and their ears….

          BTW: Sorry to all about the broken link on my post above. We’re trying to figure it out…

          • October 18, 2009 6:38 am

            Resembling someone is inadequate evidence. Come on Swem, Ockham’s Razor here.

            Questioning and wondering is perfectly fine as far as conspiracies go. Being a True Believer is not.

            • swemson permalink
              October 18, 2009 11:07 am

              David;

              I specifically said above that there’s a whole lot of anecdotal evidence on this, & that since BHO is such a LIAR, to me, everything he says is suspect.. Show me where in what I wrote above, you come to the conclusion that I’m a “True Believer” on this issue… And a physical resemblance to someone is indeed one of the factors that’s relevant to a paternity question when DNA evidence isn’t available…

              All I actually said was that of the 2 different theories that speculate about why he’s hiding his birth records, I think the story about Frank Marshall Davis being his true father sounds more likely… But the other is possible too.

              One of the links from the pages I cite above, led me to :

              http://thepostnemail.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/ap-declares-obama-kenyan-born/

              The author of this article, talking about the 6.27.04 AP article also says:

              This report explains the context of the oft cited debate, between Obama and Keyes in the following Fall, in which Keyes faulted Obama for not being a “natural born citizen”, and in which Obama, by his quick retort, “So what? I am running for Illinois Senator, not the presidency”, self-admitted that he was not eligible for the office. Seeing that an AP reporter is too professional to submit a story which was not based on confirmed sources (ostensibly the Obama campaign in this case), the inference seems inescapable: Obama himself was putting out in 2004, that he was born in Kenya.

              The difficulty in finding this gem of a story is hampered by Google, which is running flak for Obama: because if you search for “Kenyan-born US Senate” you wont find it, but if you search for the phrase without quotes you will find links which talk about it.

              When we talked about conspiracy theories a while back (I think you listed 10 major ones) I think you admitted that occasionally, there is some truth to these things… In rejecting virtually all of the “birther’s” claims out of hand however, you’re forgetting that we’re talking about the mystery man here, the great deceiver, who conned the American people into thinking that he wasn’t the person who we now know he is….

              Do you want to tell me how you can simply accept anything this POS says on its face value..

  4. MARY MALBERG permalink
    October 17, 2009 1:09 pm

    THANK GOD FOX FIRED HILL. HOOOOOOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. Doug Book permalink
    October 17, 2009 1:14 pm

    If Obama has spent a million dollars and written an executive order threatening legal action against those seeking his BC, something MUST be just a little suspicious, don’t ya think! A crackpot would claim Obama was born on Jupiter, not in Kenya.

    • October 17, 2009 1:21 pm

      “If Obama has spent a million dollars and written an executive order threatening legal action against those seeking his BC, something MUST be just a little suspicious, don’t ya think!”

      Source please.

      • swemson permalink
        October 17, 2009 11:17 pm

        Common sense David..

        If he was honest and legit, why would he be hiding anything.. ?

        And it’s not just his birth certificate… how about his school transcripts and other records…?

        The more we know about him, the more apparent it becomes that he is indeed the Manchurian candidate…

        The only question is whether he’s controlled by Marxists, or the ayatollahs in Teheran…

        I think the Marxists are far more likely to me at this time, although some of his dealings with Iran make me wonder, and shudder all at the same time.

        Regardless of who’s pulling the strings… one thing is clear, and that’s the fact that he’s out to destroy America as we know it .. and as such, he has clearly violated the oath he made in January, and is therefore a TRAITOR to The United States of America….

        And I don’t care how politically incorrect it may seem, I think that he deserves no less than to be executed for his treason in the public square, and yes…. at the end of a rope !

        As a former Marine who risked his life to defend this great country, I’ve earned the right to speak my mind, and I don’t give a damn who I offend by saying that…..

        S

        • The Grubb permalink
          October 18, 2009 12:03 am

          QUOTE: “Regardless of who’s pulling the strings… one thing is clear, and that’s the fact that he’s out to destroy America as we know it .. and as such, he has clearly violated the oath he made in January, and is therefore a TRAITOR to The United States of America….”

          Woah…

          You’ve really got yourself worked up over this, don’t you?

          I didn’t like Bush, in fact he’s one of the few politicians I’d go all the way and say I hate. But I didn’t go around saying he was a traitor and needed to be hung. Bush, in my opinion, made some very serious and stupid decisions that cost the lives of many people. Including the lives of your fellow Marines.

          All you’ve got on Obama are 3 photographs which are somehow suppose to prove who his father is. Please, even if I where some sort of “forensic magician” that could instantly tell parentage just by looking at the pictures, it wouldn’t prove anything about Obama’s character or his “true” goals. If Adolf Hitler was my father, that wouldn’t necessarily make me a Nazi.

          Even David Horowitz’s parents where communists, yet now he’s a respected conservative journalist.

          • swemson permalink
            October 18, 2009 11:27 am

            Yeah I do…

            I’m worked up over the fact that a damned communist has staged a bloodless coup and taken over the government of my country through lies and deception…

            Where he was born, is irrelevant to his being a traitor, that’s just one example of all the perjury he’s committed.

            Everything he’s done in the foreign relations arena is counter to our country’s interests…

            Ordering the release of islamic terrorist prisoners is an act of treason…

            Using our tax money to help member of Hamas emigrate to this country, all expenses paid, is an act of treason…

            Standing idly by while Iran develops nukes is an act of treason…

            Supporting communist would be dictators in Venezuela and Honduras is also probably an act of treason…

            This POS swore an oath to “preserve protect and defend” our Constitution, and from the minute he was sworn in he’s been shredding the Constitution right in front of our eyes…

            He’s an enemy to everything that this country stands for, and to the very idea of individual freedom and liberty itself.. so if you want to argue over semantics, knock yourself out…

            I know what he is, and so do most of the people on Newsreel.. The only difference between us is that I’m not trying to be polite or politically correct in what I say..

        • October 18, 2009 6:14 am

          I would like a source telling me what exactly Obama has done to constitute “hiding” something that he shouldn’t be hiding. I haven’t gotten one yet. If you would like to provide one then by all means go ahead.

          • swemson permalink
            October 18, 2009 11:38 am

            David;

            You remind me of the AGW diehards who reject any evidence offered that proves their CO2 theory is BS, by claiming it’s not “peer-reviewed”

            You want me to provide you with a “source” ?

            Are you denying that there’s an issue here ? Are you denying that he has refused to release his original birth certificate ?

            Are you claiming that BHO has in fact released all of his original documents… ?

            What ARE you trying to say ?

        • fiftyfifty permalink
          October 18, 2009 6:58 am

          Swemson that former Marine unit was and were did you hold the wall in Vietnam
          that gave you this god given right to hide behind a big mouth and insult anyone who dares to disagree.

          PWND

        • fiftyfifty permalink
          October 18, 2009 7:10 am

          Swemson
          Again that Marine unit was that you saw all that horror’s in that Vietnam

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        October 18, 2009 6:31 am

        I am sure he was born in Hawaii. There are those pesky birth announcments though at that time it was not uncommon for a relative to provde that information to a newspaper. I believe he is hiding something I just do not know what and do not pretend to know and having looked at untold numbers of mug shots I have to say that would be based on poor specualtion. But then I know there is something not being revealed and it may have to do with illegally getting money for school or any number of embarassing things. I simply do not know.

        • swemson permalink
          October 18, 2009 11:11 am

          Thanks Jack..

          My point exactly.. It may have to do with any number of things…

          But he’s clearly hiding something..

  6. The Grubb permalink
    October 17, 2009 2:12 pm

    You mean… Fox News hired somebody who wasn’t qualified for the job he was given and turned out to be a nut case!? How shocking!

    Sarcasm aside. Most of Fox news seems to be pretty much the same as Marc Lamont Hill, the only real difference is that Mr. Hill was their “leftist” sock puppet which folks like Hannity and O’Reilly get to yell at with their loud, booming, opinionated voices.

    Your making it sound as if Mr. Hill’s failure to be a creditable journalist is a failure of the left to have any kind of creditability. Well, if I thought that way, I’d say that Fox News as a whole is a failure of the right to make any kind of reasonable argument.

    QUOTE: “This is something the Left is forced to do. They have to hide their true agenda in order to sneak it into the public consciousness. (It’s why Michael Moore has to rename communism as “democracy.”) America does not want to be transformed into the Socialist Utopia which Hill and other leftists are working to create.”

    Oh give me a break. The cold war is over and McCarthy isn’t in office. Nobody on the left or the right wants to turn this country into communist nation. There isn’t some secret plot by Michael Moore or “the left” in general to turn America into a communist state by a different name and the idea of that there is just as silly and paranoid as all those “truther” and “birther” ideas out there.

    You guys criticize Media Matters for pushing their extreme agenda to the point that it just becomes silly, yet here I am reading this!

    • October 17, 2009 2:36 pm

      Well hello my friend. 🙂

      “Your making it sound as if Mr. Hill’s failure to be a creditable journalist is a failure of the left to have any kind of creditability.”

      Where do I say that? Hill’s not a journalist, he’s a commentator.

      “There isn’t some secret plot by Michael Moore or “the left” in general to turn America into a communist state by a different name and the idea of that there is just as silly and paranoid as all those “truther” and “birther” ideas out there.”

      It looks like I’ve got some books to lend you next time you, Jon, and Lauren come up .

      The Left is really quite open about its desires to create a government with greater power over people’s lives. Conspiracies operate in secret. Because it’s no secret that those who identify with the Left want a bigger government based on socialist principles then it’s not crackpot conspiracism to point out what they’re saying.

      Do you understand why we got on Hill’s case? How he was defending people like Assata Shakur and Mumia Abu-Jamal — communist revolutionary criminals? How he was defending Ward Churchill’s statement that 9/11 victims were “little eichmanns”? Why are you more comfortable sympathizing with this crowd — those who want to destroy America — than those who are trying to protect your freedom? 😉

      • The Grubb permalink
        October 17, 2009 10:57 pm

        QUOTE: “Where do I say that? Hill’s not a journalist, he’s a commentator.”

        Well then, failure to be credible commentator then, and you implied it when you started generalizing him as part of “the left” where these is a very obvious difference between him and even whack-jobs like Micheal Moore.

        QUOTE: “The Left is really quite open about its desires to create a government with greater power over people’s lives.”

        …and “The Right” isn’t? That’s why we’ve got crap like the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act? The struggle for power works both ways. It’s the struggle that keeps things more or less where they need to be, it’s up to citizens’ power to vote to keep both sides in check.

        QUOTE: “Conspiracies operate in secret. Because it’s no secret that those who identify with the Left want a bigger government based on socialist principles then it’s not crackpot conspiracism to point out what they’re saying.”

        …And what’s wrong with a little socialism? Our schools are socialized, aren’t they? Sure, there are LOTS of problems in the public school system, I should know having been an unfortunate victim of some of my local school system’s unfortunate policies. But that’s what private schools are for, in theory. But of course there are problems with that system too. The point is that it’s imperfect either way, not just with public and private schools, but with anything that can be divided up in such a way.

        Obviously, having the government run everything does not work because it takes the power for the average citizen to run his own life out of his hands. At the same time, you get mass corruption if you privatize everything. How would you like it if “McDonald’s” ran your child’s school or if “Exxon-Mobil” ran the National Park service?

        What your doing when you say things like “They have to hide their true agenda in order to sneak it into the public consciousness. America does not want to be transformed into the Socialist Utopia…” is generalizing what “The Left” thinks as feels and mixing it up with the kind of unhealthy totalitarianism found in communist in Korea and the old Soviet Union.

        QUOTE: “Do you understand why we got on Hill’s case? How he was defending people like Assata Shakur and Mumia Abu-Jamal — communist revolutionary criminals? How he was defending Ward Churchill’s statement that 9/11 victims were “little eichmanns”?”

        NO! REALLY? I didn’t get that part at all… Did you really think that I was defending Hill? Did you not read the part where I called him a sock puppet? I don’t know really know anything about this Hill guy, I’ve never even heard of the man before I read this article. As far as I know, everything you’ve written about him is true. I wouldn’t know any different and I’m not trying to say otherwise.

        What I AM saying, is that IF everything you’ve said about him is true, then I wouldn’t put it past Fox News to intentionally hire a sub-par commentator to speak for the opposite view point that Fox tries to press. After all, if you had fight somebody in a boxing match but you get to choose you who you fight, chances are, your not going to pick Mike Tyson.

        QUOTE: “Why are you more comfortable sympathizing with this crowd — those who want to destroy America — than those who are trying to protect your freedom”

        See, THIS is what I was talking about earlier. Your generalizing again. Only now your generalizing me, trying to make me look like just another one of those whack-job leftists like Micheal Moore and Mr. Hill here, when in fact I was speaking out against such nonsense.

        You, personally, invited me to come onto these forums and speak my mind, which I have done despite the fact that my views are obviously aren’t in line with the status quo here. I don’t particularly care if people agree with me or not. I’m comfortable enough with my own views to share them with people who think otherwise. In fact, I think it’s healthy to hear both sides. I believe benefit more from listening to people disagree with me, rather than just having a bunch of “Yes Men” agree with everything I say and pat me on the back.

        I don’t mind coming here and becoming something of a “Sock Puppet” myself. But David, don’t give me crap about sympathizing with “Those who want to destroy America” You know me better than that and I find it uncharacteristic beneath you to try and deface somebody with garbage like that. Your better than that.

        • October 17, 2009 11:34 pm

          “I’d say that Fox News as a whole is a failure of the right to make any kind of reasonable argument.”

          Are you saying that Fox News is a failure? Or do you mean that their approach to rhetoric is a failure? Please explain. Inquiring sock puppets want to know.

          • The Grubb permalink
            October 18, 2009 2:24 am

            It depends on how you look at it.

            In terms of ratings, I’m sure Fox News is a big success. After all, they managed to merge “Reality” TV with the News. How could that possibly fail?

            However, in terms of credibility, I find it to be a complete failure. They call themselves “Fair and Balanced” then turn right around and outlandishly argue with any guest they bring on with an opposing viewpoint. Their commentators’ idea of “Winning” an argument involves talking louder than their guest, and threatening to “cut their mic”, and occasionally threatening their guest with the Wrath of God.

            I don’t care what side of the debate your on. That is not how you report the “News.” Behavior like that is what I see on Fox News all the time. It’s stupid, and it puts Fox News’ credibility at nothing. Yes, I know crap like this is true with most cable news. But seriously, Fox is by far the worst offender.

            • Jack Hampton permalink
              October 18, 2009 6:45 am

              You are are not a serious person. You have got to be kidding. All the other nets are simply in the tank for democraps and Obama and you are trying to put out this tripe. When you die if I am alive I would like to inherit your gall.

        • October 18, 2009 6:25 am

          “I don’t mind coming here and becoming something of a “Sock Puppet” myself. But David, don’t give me crap about sympathizing with “Those who want to destroy America” You know me better than that and I find it uncharacteristic beneath you to try and deface somebody with garbage like that. Your better than that.”

          I’m not defacing you, my friend. No offensive intended. You merely seemed to be defending Hill. And I wanted to make sure that you were aware of just what it was he supported and why we critiqued him.

          “QUOTE: “The Left is really quite open about its desires to create a government with greater power over people’s lives.”
          …and “The Right” isn’t? That’s why we’ve got crap like the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act? The struggle for power works both ways”

          Surely you can see the difference between leftists who want government controlling the economy and conservatives who support putting programs in place to protect us from terrorists?

          “What your doing when you say things like “They have to hide their true agenda in order to sneak it into the public consciousness. America does not want to be transformed into the Socialist Utopia…” is generalizing what “The Left” thinks as feels and mixing it up with the kind of unhealthy totalitarianism found in communist in Korea and the old Soviet Union.”

          Well of course it’s generalizing. The oversimplifying nature of language forces us to generalize. Think of it this way: when I saw “the Left” it’s like saying “Christianity.” When I saw “leftists” it’s like saying “Christians.”

          Now it’s a generalization to say “Christians believe Jesus rose from the dead” because not all Christians believe it. But a SUBSTANTIAL number do. So when I say “Leftists want a government with greater power to regulate the economy” then that’s a generalization but an accurate one.

          • Jack Hampton permalink
            October 18, 2009 6:41 am

            “Surely you can see the difference between leftists who want government controlling the economy and conservatives who support putting programs in place to protect us from terrorists”

            I do not believe he does but you seem to have him well in hand and have spotted it.

          • The Grubb permalink
            October 18, 2009 1:01 pm

            QUOTE: “Surely you can see the difference between leftists who want government controlling the economy and conservatives who support putting programs in place to protect us from terrorists?”

            Yes, of course I can see that. I think government programs like that are great. But the problem is that in some case, we already HAVE programs like that that have utterly failed. Especially Health Care.

            As I’ve said before, I don’t agree with everything Obama has done. I think the bank bailout was complete bull, and he better give control of the auto companies back to the auto companies as soon as it’s feasible. Otherwise he’s going to have a lot of pissed off voters to deal with. Democrat and Republican alike.

            Simply, Obama went too far to fix the financial crisis.

            At the same time, Bush went too far with the Patriot act. He used fear mongering to pass a ridiculous law on frightened citizens. He went too far when he declared war on Iraq, without UN approval. He played on the fears of frightened citizens to pull all kinds of crazy crap.

            My worries about Obama, is that he could very well be playing with people’s hopes instead of fears. I seriously doubt he is, but a lot of people here seem pretty sure. My point is that unlike a lot of people, I’m not ready to give up on him yet. He’s got a lot on his plate and the weight of the world on his shoulders, and unlike a lot of the people who voted for him, I never expected him to have a magic wand and change the world overnight.

            Would I vote for Obama again if I could go back and change my vote, knowing what I know he’ll do this far into his presidency? Yes, I would vote for him again. However, ask me again in 3 more years, and if he’s failed to bring about many of the changes he’s promised, then no.

            My point here is that YES, I think some things SHOULD be socialized. There is a very real need for a Public Schools and Libraries just as there is a very real need for a Public Health system. The only difference between them two (besides the function they preform) is that Public Schools and Libraries have been a SOCIALIZED part of our society for so long that people don’t usually think of it in those terms, where are the idea of Socialized health care brings about ridiculous fears about people trying to turn the whole nation into a communist dictatorship.

            Sure, I understand why people would be afraid of such a thing. But personally, I’m afraid of the opposite. I’m afraid of what would happen to this country if even things like libraries and schools where run by private corporations. What would happen is NBC or Fox or Disney ran children’s schools? What if your only option to educate your child was to pick among competing schools that focus less on education are more on the bottom line.

            What if companies could buy “shares” in the government? Sure, there are already elements of that in place, but there are government programs that keep things like that in check, but they don’t always work. Nothing on either extreme is going to work. Complete communism doesn’t work any more than a completely free market, and NOBODY wants either extreme.

            People need to speak out and say “Obama is WRONG!” when they feel he’s wrong, and not just candy-coat him with sprinkles and assume he can do no wrong. At the same time, people need to be open to new ideas to replace the old ideas that thus far haven’t worked.

            Yeah, it would be great if programs like Medicare and Medicaid worked. But guess what? They don’t. And socialized health care seems to work great for most of the nations that have it. Sure, it’s not perfect, but at least it functions better. A little kid in Canada doesn’t have to die from a treatable form of cancer just because he’s poor, when sadly, here in America he does.

            The current health care system fails people every day. Sure, a public health care system would have it’s flaws, and many of them. But saying it’s a step closer to communism is like saying keeping it private is a step towards anarchy.

            QUOTE: “Now it’s a generalization to say “Christians believe Jesus rose from the dead” because not all Christians believe it. But a SUBSTANTIAL number do. So when I say “Leftists want a government with greater power to regulate the economy” then that’s a generalization but an accurate one.”

            Well, a substantial number of “the right” appear to homophobic warmongers. But I don’t go around generalizing people like that. Especially people who I know for a fact aren’t like that. I don’t go around generalizing you as a homophobic warmonger just because you defend the right’s point of view. I would appreciate it if you didn’t generalize me as a whack-job like Mr. Hill here, just because we both identify ourselves as liberal.

            • October 18, 2009 5:41 pm

              “I would appreciate it if you didn’t generalize me as a whack-job like Mr. Hill here, just because we both identify ourselves as liberal.”

              I didn’t generalize you my friend. I just asked a question which you answered properly – by distancing yourself from Hill. 🙂

              • swemson permalink
                October 18, 2009 6:43 pm

                David;

                Don’t you think that you throw some people off when you refer to yourself as being liberal… especially in this current political climate ?

                I assume that you’re liberal in that you believe that the government should stay the hell out of people’s private lives, but NOT liberal, in the sense that you think people should take responsibility for their own lives, and not expect government to take care of them…

                Am I wrong…?

                I refer to that as being “socially” liberal, and being fiscally conservative….

                Perhaps Libertarian is a better term altogether.

                • October 18, 2009 7:20 pm

                  Where did I refer to myself as “liberal”? Perhaps you misread my post? I was quoting the Grubb.

                  I do consider myself “liberal” in the proper (non-leftist corrupted) version of the term but it’s generally not a term I use casually when describing my ideological leanings.

                  • swemson permalink
                    October 18, 2009 10:07 pm

                    Sorry… I didn’t see the quote marks

  7. Mike permalink
    October 17, 2009 5:32 pm

    I was sneered at here when I suggest that Fox fire Hill. Glad to see the efforts of everyone involved, including those that emailed the O’Reilly factory, paid off.

    Hill can always get a job on MSNBC. Don’t be surprised.

  8. Jack Hampton permalink
    October 18, 2009 6:46 am

    I believe he will be a pity hire there or at CNN.

    • swemson permalink
      October 18, 2009 2:56 pm

      “what’s wrong with a little socialism?’

      I think Margaret Thatcher had the best answer to that one when she said…

      “what’s wrong” is that eventually you run out of other people’s money !

  9. "gunner" permalink
    October 18, 2009 11:03 am

    “what’s wrong with a little socialism?’ it seems that “a little socialism” inevitably becomes a lot more socialism, until in the end there’s nothing left of freedom.

    • The Grubb permalink
      October 18, 2009 11:31 am

      QUOTE: “it seems that “a little socialism” inevitably becomes a lot more socialism, until in the end there’s nothing left of freedom.”

      But you see, NOBODY wants that, and if “the left” started pulling too much towards full communism, I’d gladly switch sides. I think that public health care is just as good of an ideal as public school system and I think it’s a policy that America is overdue for adopting. But people here are afraid of it because of archaic fears of Communism.

      • swemson permalink
        October 18, 2009 11:54 am

        But since we know that socialism doesn’t work, why should we accept even a little of it ?

        I think that public health care is just as good of an ideal as public school system and I think it’s a policy that America is overdue for adopting. But people here are afraid of it because of archaic fears of Communism.

        If you think that fear of communism is archaic, I suggest that you go study the actual track record of communism, in every country it infected.. Stalin and Mao made Hitler look like an amateur by comparison…

        And if you think that any part of public health care is good, then I suggest you take a long hard look at how well it works in Britain, Canada, Cuba and China…

        If that’s the world you want to live in, I’m sure that there are plenty of other nations that would welcome you…

        Just tell them how much you hate America, and I’m sure the doors will open wide..

        • The Grubb permalink
          October 18, 2009 1:26 pm

          You see, it’s stuff like this that makes it hard for me to take the Right seriously.

          The health care system in Britain, Canada, and Cuba actually works pretty well. I suggest you take a good look at it. China’s system has quite a few glaring flaws, but that has a lot more to do with the glaring flaws in government, rather than the health care system specifically.

          And I don’t hate America, I feel lucky to live here. I just hate ignorant loudmouths like you, who obviously don’t think anyone with a viewpoint opposing yours has a right to act like you do, or a right to live here amongst you.

          Well, guess what? America is my country too. I pay my taxes and get pissed off at things just as you do. The difference between you and me is that I’m willing to be tolerant. I’ll strongly defend my views, just as you do. The difference is I’m actually willing to listen to other people, instead of throwing a fit the moment somebody has something to say that I don’t agree with.

          The difference between you, and most of the people here who’ve expressed viewpoints different from my own, is that they back up their words and beliefs with real, serious, and honest concerns and compelling evidence, allowing me to see and understand WHY they feel the way they do. Where as you back up your words with little more than angry words and ignorance.

          You sir, are welcome to your opinions. But you really should learn to be tolerant of other people’s ideas. The truth is that we’re ALL ignorant here. None of us here have all the right answers, and anyone who claims they do is only fooling themselves.

          • swemson permalink
            October 18, 2009 2:22 pm

            Here’s where I draw the line:

            I’m tolerant of anyone’s ideas, no matter how insane, as long as they’re not a threat to me…

            But I’m NOT tolerant of your opinions if they include the idea that you have the right to enslave me, which is precisely what the left is all about.

            You think that you have the RIGHT to FORCE me to pay for other people’s heath care..

            You think that you have the RIGHT to FORCE me to pay for other people’s groceries..

            You think that you have the RIGHT to FORCE me to pay for other people’s rent..

            You think that you have the RIGHT to FORCE a small minority of Americans to pay for whatever the rest decide that they “need”..

            You think that “need” is a claim..

            I think that a system that FORCES a small minority of the population to pay for the UNEARNED BENEFITS of others, is a SLAVE SOCIETY….

            So no, I’m NOT TOLERANT of your views, in the same way that I’m NOT TOLERANT of the needs or desires of the criminal who breaks into my home to steal my property….

            The America that you say is the country that YOU love, is NOT the America that millions of us have fought and died to protect…

            You’re not just another American.. you’re the enemy of ALL true Americans

            TANSTAAFL
            ( There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch )

            • The Grubb permalink
              October 18, 2009 5:30 pm

              QUOTE: “I’m tolerant of anyone’s ideas, no matter how insane, as long as they’re not a threat to me…”

              So, I’m a threat to you? Just like Obama is a threat to you? You think that “the left” wants to enslave you just by raising your taxes? Well, in that case, I’m a salve too!

              You think you have the RIGHT to FORCE me to pay for a war I don’t believe in?

              You think you have the RIGHT to FORCE me to pay for roads I don’t drive on?

              You think you have the RIGHT to FORCE me to pay for the education of a child I didn’t give birth to?

              You think you have the RIGHT to FORCE me to pay the salary of a man who risks his life every day to fight crime or fires?

              You think you have the RIGHT to FORCE me to pay for the reconstruction of a city that was damaged during a disaster?

              Oh, Woe is me! I’m so oppressed! I have to pay my taxes! Just like everyone else!

              The only thing you said in that whole statement that made any kind of sense, and could even be confused as a “good argument” is when you said “there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.” Dare I be bold enough to say you might actually have a point there? But guess what? We all pay taxes, so by your definition your already a slave! And as a slave, you get to enjoy such things as public roads, public schools, public parks, public libraries, public transportation, police and fire services, the military, and soon, public health care!

              Your not tolerant of other people’s ideas. Your just a bitter and cranky because you don’t like the guy who won the presidential election because he doesn’t fit into your limited range of acceptance. Your completely intolerant of any idea that doesn’t work with your own, and your respond to such “Threats” as you call them with undue anger and borderline insanity.

              You say that I’m a threat to “real” Americans? Well, from where I’m standing, your the real threat; an intolerant and selfish fool. There are a lot of other people on this boat, and your just going to have to learn how to play nice or at least learn to express yourself in some way that doesn’t make you look like a raging lunatic.

              • swemson permalink
                October 18, 2009 6:17 pm

                Read my post & yours again a few hundred times… maybe the difference will eventually begin to sink in….

                But I doubt it..

                • swemson permalink
                  October 18, 2009 6:17 pm

                  And BTW:

                  Try reading the US Constitution as well…

        • JCW permalink
          October 18, 2009 1:56 pm

          Please remove that eye/fly. It’s disturbing and I wonder why you would use that as an identifier.

          • swemson permalink
            October 18, 2009 6:16 pm

            And I wonder why it disturbs you

  10. Soylent Green permalink
    October 18, 2009 9:53 pm

    Dear Grubb,

    Your previous comment confuses me: “Yeah, it would be great if programs like Medicare and Medicaid worked. But guess what? They don’t. And socialized health care seems to work great for most of the nations that have it. Sure, it’s not perfect, but at least it functions better. A little kid in Canada doesn’t have to die from a treatable form of cancer just because he’s poor, when sadly, here in America he does.”
    Exactly what do you think Medicaid and Medicare are if not socialized medicine? And what makes you think ‘IT’ would work when by your own admission, they don’t? I also just recently retired as a government social worker and I don’t recall ANY poor children dying because they couldn’t get medical care. I can’t recall them not even getting free eyeglasses. But to hear you and President Obama speak it seems they’re dying in droves.

  11. Colette permalink
    October 18, 2009 11:28 pm

    100 % for you Boldness – and for doing what’s right…thank you David H. for exposing this man for who he really is!

  12. Organza Friganza permalink
    October 19, 2009 3:46 am

    This is all wonderful back-and-forth about the domestic issues looming over us now that the Democrats have a supermajority in this country. But it strikes me as curious that they are absolutely PETRIFIED to act on it. They search for cover through bogus “bipartisanship” every chance they get–why? Because the majority of Americans don’t agree with their policies, their principles, or their their core beliefs. Take the health care debate slobbering on and on right now–the Democrats have all the power, why don’t they pass it? Of course they WILL pass some sort of bill contrary to the wishes of the populace. And we will see what they get for it next year.

    I’ve read liberals on this blog speak in reasoned and intelligent tones. But they will NEVER be able to explain to me the course of inept diplomatic humiliation upon which this administration is hellbent, nor can they explain the traitorous treatment they are making our allies–spelled ISRAEL–suffer as a regular matter of course–the absurdity of tying further aid to Israel with clear advances in talks w/the Palestinian Authority is as abjectly moronic as it is inane. President Obama will have as much luck speaking w/Iran as Israel ever could trying to broker peace w/Hamas–one would think, for someone so supposedly brilliant and insightful, the pointlessness of trying to broker peace w/those who want you DEAD would be self-evident. This president has stopped at nothing to humiliate and weaken the U.S.

    I truly believe, as this continues, in 2012 we will do the right thing and vote him OUT.

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