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Joe Klein Accuses Fox News of Sedition

October 27, 2009

Joe Klein

Sometimes I wake up in the morning ashamed that I share the same name with the ultra liberal Time Magazine commentator Joe Klein.  This is one of those mornings.  As reported last night during The O’Reilly Factor, my namesake stupidly accused Fox News of “sedition”, “hateful crap” and lies – and that was just in the first sentence of his tirade. 

Let me be precise here: Fox News peddles a fair amount of hateful crap. Some of it borders on sedition. Much of it is flat out untrue.

Joe Klein was invited on The Factor to back up his charges but declined.  And he is certainly too intimidated to go face-to-face with Sean Hannity whom he called a “thug” or with Glenn Beck whom he called a “weirdo”.   Joe sure knows how to choose his words – a junior high school student journalist would be far more mature.

If I were to somehow be able to have an out-of-body experience and magically appear on The Factor or Hannity’s America in Joe Klein’s stead as his namesake and alterego, here is what I would say. 

First, I would admit that my hysterics were embarrassing to all of us with the name Joe Klein (personally I am tired of being asked whether I am that goofy liberal who writes such absurdities) and that it was unprofessional journalism to say the least.

Second, I would admit that I need to have a dictionary by my side before I throw out crazy charges like   “sedition”, which is defined as “the crime of revolting or inciting revolt against government”.   I would have to concede that the exercise of the First Amendment right of free speech and free press is not sedition, unless we want to go back to the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, which barred spoken or written criticism of the government, the Congress, or the President.  And I would have to admit to O’Reilly or Hannity that I wasn’t exactly kind to George W. Bush when he was president.

Third, standing in for the liberal Joe Klein as his alterego on The Factor or Hannity’s America, I would expect to have to deal with Joe’s whining statements about alleged bullying of the press by the McCain campaign that my hosts might well confront me with:

The story of the day out here in Minneapolis is the McCain campaign’s war against the press. This has been building for some time. Those of us who have criticized the candidate–and especially those of us who enjoyed good relations with McCain in the past–have been subject to off-the-record browbeating and attempted bullying all year…

There is a tendency in the media to kick ourselves, cringe and withdraw, when we are criticized. But I hope my colleagues stand strong in this case: it is important for the public to know that Palin raised taxes as governor, supported the Bridge to Nowhere before she opposed it, pursued pork-barrel projects as mayor, tried to ban books at the local library and thinks the war in Iraq is “a task from God.” The attempts by the McCain campaign to bully us into not reporting such things are not only stupidly aggressive, but unprofessional in the extreme.

Somehow I would have to explain why the Obama administration is not being “unprofessional in the extreme” when it repeatedly attacks Fox News for criticizing  the Obama administration’s selection of radical czars, its dithering on Afghanistan while more of our soldiers are dying in the field, its run away spending, its deception in portraying Obamacare as deficit neutral with no adverse impact on care for seniors or on the health system as a whole, and the corruption at ACORN.

On second thought, Joe.  Why should I have to bail you out of the mess you created even if you did a disservice to all of us who share your name?  Man up and go on The Factor or Hannity’s America yourself to defend your irresponsible charges against Fox News.

  1. October 27, 2009 7:35 am

    I think Joe Klein is guilty of ‘stupidition’.

    • Sam Deakins permalink
      October 28, 2009 2:34 am

      Which Joe Klein?

    • Robert Laity permalink
      November 9, 2009 11:31 pm

      I think Obama and Pelosi are guilty of Treason and Federal Election Fraud.

  2. jac mills permalink
    October 27, 2009 8:44 am

    To The Real Mr Klein:

    Being new around here, I was just about to ask, so thank you for the proaction.

    I any case, as TRMK, you are much better looking — and, I am certain, much smarter.


    • politicalmoxie permalink
      October 27, 2009 10:23 am

      Try this…I’m “THE” Joe Klein, no just Joe Klein…I think that’ll work.

  3. In the know permalink
    October 27, 2009 10:26 am

    “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve….” is an example of sedition. Perhaps Fox news is guilty of sedition. Just as guilty as Thomas Paine or Patrick Henry were. From a pro big government socialists’ perspective this website is seditious. I am guilty of sedition. It’s time for people to wake up and realize these folks are playing for keeps. The game is over. They stopped playing by the rules years ago, don’t expect them to honor them now that they have control.

    • Jack Hampton permalink
      October 28, 2009 3:58 am

      In The Know
      You are absolutely right when you say these people stopped playing by the rules they did so in the 1960’s when the hippies and feel good generation and the revolutionaries joined forces with the democrap party. The old comunist are now the left the enviro nuts and the assorted groups like Code Pink and NOW and the Human Rights Campaign. Put them in a box shake them up and roll them out and you will not be able to tell any difference.

      • Robert Laity permalink
        October 28, 2009 10:27 pm

        I am of the “Hippie” generation. However, I am very conservative.

  4. Aged Cheddar permalink
    October 27, 2009 12:23 pm

    One has to be amazed at Americans’ love affair with the press and the bumble headed writers who presume to tell them what to think.

    Let us keep some perspective here. Time Magazine declared Adolf Hitler “Man of the Year” in its January 2, 1939 issue and twice honored Joseph Stalin (1939 & 1942) with the same title. The leftist press’ love affair with socialism, fascism, communism and all things anti-American is a matter of record and something of which we should always be aware.

    Briefly said, I do not care what the leftist Joe Kleins of the world have to say, since the source of his ideas is a corrupt ideology intent on destroying liberty everywhere. Now if we could just get a few million of our countrymen to repeat that phrase regularly.

    • LanceThruster permalink
      October 28, 2009 12:53 pm

      Cheesy Crust!, Chedder,

      The Person of the Year isn’t about an endorsement of the selection. Do you really not know that?

      [from the website] – TIME magazine’s Person of the Year is the person who most affected the events of the year, for better or for worse.

  5. LanceThruster permalink
    October 27, 2009 1:16 pm

    I remember all the cautions when Shrub was running the show about what dissent was not appropriate when the nation was at war.

    Well, last I checked, we’re still at war.

    • In the know permalink
      October 27, 2009 1:54 pm


      I remember his administration putting out a call to artists to push his agenda, a “brand new conversation”. Also, I remember his administration attacking a media outlet for questioning his policies. Remember all of those “shrubies” who openly emulated communists and ruthless, murderous dictators? How about the time he sidestepped Congress and appointed people to positions of power over cabinet level secretaries? Who could forget the time he decided to fly to Europe to lobby for Crawford, TX to get an olympic bid. Last but not least, how about when he spoke at the UN and apologized for all the bad things we did to evil dictators and maniacle religious zealots as our soldiers currently fought and died on far off fields of battle. Good thing the current administration hasn’t done anything like that. But at least the media was there to call Bush out on that.

      • LanceThruster permalink
        October 27, 2009 4:30 pm

        Though Mr. Horowitz has written about the dangers the left poses to health and safety of a nation’s inhabitants, I have seen nothing of his explaining the slaughter from right wing dictators and their death squads. I guess their “business freindly” attitudess have nothing to do with their other dictatorial abuses.

        • October 27, 2009 5:14 pm

          Please immediately list the books by David Horowitz which you have read.

          • LanceThruster permalink
            October 28, 2009 11:27 am

            [immediately] I have read much of his writings (though none onf his books) and attended one of his campus lectures. You sound not unlike a Scientologist in that your opt not to summarize his positions based on your own understandings, but leave it to be revealed exclusively through whichever book you choose to reference.


            Managing Editor: What are they gonna say about him? What are they gonna say? That he was a kind man? That he was a wise man? That he had plans? That he had wisdom? Bullsh!t man!

            LanceThruster: Could we, uh… talk to the Editor-In-Chief?

            Managing Editor: Hey, man, you don’t talk to the Editor-In-Chief. You listen to him. The man’s enlarged my mind. He’s a poet-warrior in the classic sense. I mean sometimes he’ll… uh… well, you’ll say “hello” to him, right? And he’ll just walk right by you. He won’t even notice you. And suddenly he’ll grab you, and he’ll throw you in a corner, and he’ll say, “do you know that ‘if’ is the middle word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you”… I mean I’m no, I can’t… I’m a little man, I’m a little man, he’s… he’s a great man. I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas…


            [LT toes ground awkwardly and coughs]

            “Um, hmmm…I see.”

        • FelixPrismus permalink
          October 27, 2009 5:47 pm

          Right wing dictators, a little oxymoronic but I’ll buy it

          Who would you mean by that?

          • In the know permalink
            October 28, 2009 9:38 am

            Hitler of course. Any leftie will tell you NAZI’s are conservatives. Regardless of the fact that they were socialist, environmentalist, eugenicists who took over German industry after the deutsche mark suffered hyper inflation. Weird, I wonder if anyone remembers if German industry was “too big to fail”?

          • LanceThruster permalink
            October 28, 2009 11:00 am


            Harold Pinter, Nobel Acceptance Speech:

            “The United States supported the brutal Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua for over 40 years. The Nicaraguan people, led by the Sandinistas, overthrew this regime in 1979, a breathtaking popular revolution.

            The Sandinistas weren’t perfect. They possessed their fair share of arrogance and their political philosophy contained a number of contradictory elements. But they were intelligent, rational and civilized. They set out to establish a stable, decent, pluralistic society. The death penalty was abolished. Hundreds of thousands of poverty-stricken peasants were brought back from the dead. Over 100,000 families were given title to land. Two thousand schools were built. A quite remarkable literacy campaign reduced illiteracy in the country to less than one seventh. Free education was established and a free health service. Infant mortality was reduced by a third. Polio was eradicated.

            The United States denounced these achievements as Marxist/Leninist subversion. In the view of the US government, a dangerous example was being set. If Nicaragua was allowed to establish basic norms of social and economic justice, if it was allowed to raise the standards of health care and education and achieve social unity and national self respect, neighboring countries would ask the same questions and do the same things. There was of course at the time fierce resistance to the status quo in El Salvador.

            I spoke earlier about ‘a tapestry of lies’ which surrounds us. President Reagan commonly described Nicaragua as a ‘totalitarian dungeon’. This was taken generally by the media, and certainly by the British government, as accurate and fair comment. But there was in fact no record of death squads under the Sandinista government. There was no record of torture. There was no record of systematic or official military brutality. No priests were ever murdered in Nicaragua. There were in fact three priests in the government, two Jesuits and a Maryknoll missionary. The totalitarian dungeons were actually next door, in El Salvador and Guatemala. The United States had brought down the democratically elected government of Guatemala in 1954 and it is estimated that over 200,000 people had been victims of successive military dictatorships.

            Six of the most distinguished Jesuits in the world were viciously murdered at the Central American University in San Salvador in 1989 by a battalion of the Alcatl regiment trained at Fort Benning, Georgia, USA. That extremely brave man Archbishop Romero was assassinated while saying mass. It is estimated that 75,000 people died. Why were they killed? They were killed because they believed a better life was possible and should be achieved. That belief immediately qualified them as communists. They died because they dared to question the status quo, the endless plateau of poverty, disease, degradation and oppression, which had been their birthright.

            The United States finally brought down the Sandinista government. It took some years and considerable resistance but relentless economic persecution and 30,000 dead finally undermined the spirit of the Nicaraguan people. They were exhausted and poverty stricken once again. The casinos moved back into the country. Free health and free education were over. Big business returned with a vengeance. ‘Democracy’ had prevailed.

            But this ‘policy’ was by no means restricted to Central America. It was conducted throughout the world. It was never-ending. And it is as if it never happened.

            The United States supported and in many cases engendered every right wing military dictatorship in the world after the end of the Second World War. I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala, El Salvador, and, of course, Chile. The horror the United States inflicted upon Chile in 1973 can never be purged and can never be forgiven.

            Hundreds of thousands of deaths took place throughout these countries. Did they take place? And are they in all cases attributable to US foreign policy? The answer is yes they did take place and they are attributable to American foreign policy. But you wouldn’t know it.”


            Here’s Pinter again:

            “The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It’s a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis…It’s a scintillating stratagem.”
            Consider how the news was shaped to make it look like the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were carried out for altruistic reasons. Thus, the war in Afghanistan became “Operation Enduring Freedom”, stressing the selfless generosity of bombing a country into oblivion and reinstating the thuggish warlords to power. The same strategy was used for the invasion of Iraq which was celebrated as “liberation from a brutal dictator.” Liberation which cost the lives of over 1 million Iraqis and the displacement of 4 million more. Still, no one in the UN or so called international community has pressed for removing the US from the Security Council or prosecuting its leaders for war crimes. It’s a testimony to the success of the US media in upholding the “tapestry of lies” of which Pinter speaks. Under Obama, the charade has only gotten worse. The coverage of the war has stopped entirely. War? What war? What matters now is Obama’s cheery banter with Jay Leno, or Michelle’s well-proportioned arms or Malia’s adorable Portuguese Waterdog. America is whole again. Let the killing resume.

            Pinter: “What has happened to our moral sensibility? Did we ever have any? What do these words mean? Do they refer to a term very rarely employed these days – conscience? A conscience to do not only with our own acts but to do with our shared responsibility in the acts of others? Is all this dead? Look at Guantanamo Bay. Hundreds of people detained without charge for over three years, with no legal representation or due process, technically detained forever. This totally illegitimate structure is maintained in defiance of the Geneva Convention. It is not only tolerated but hardly thought about by what’s called the ‘international community’. This criminal outrage is being committed by a country, which declares itself to be ‘the leader of the free world’. Do we think about the inhabitants of Guantanamo Bay? What does the media say about them? They pop up occasionally – a small item on page six. They have been consigned to a no man’s land from which indeed they may never return. At present many are on hunger strike, being force-fed, including British residents. No niceties in these force-feeding procedures. No sedative or anesthetic. Just a tube stuck up your nose and into your throat. You vomit blood. This is torture. What has the British Foreign Secretary said about this? Nothing. What has the British Prime Minister said about this? Nothing. Why not? Because the United States has said: to criticize our conduct in Guantanamo Bay constitutes an unfriendly act. You’re either with us or against us.”

            • Jack Hampton permalink
              October 28, 2009 11:49 am

              Well the mask is ripped away to reveal no ordinary troll but a devout America hating Marxist troll. His post is mostly lies mixed with some half truths. I have to laugh in regard to his reference to the Geneva Convention which was never designed to be applied to terrorist criminals that wear no uniform or represents no Government. These are the head cutters and responsible for the death of almost three thousand people in the US alone and his description of the Sandinistas and poor Danny Ortega I felt a tear come to my eye. Oh my the Communist would have been so successful all over the world and there would be social justice for except for the mean rotten old USA. Is the above a joke. Gitmo buried on page six hell I cannot count the times it has led on the evening news and the front of the New York Times. If only we could destroy the USA all the ills of a misbegotten world would be solved the monstrous murder and slaughter that is Africa and to which we send countless billions of dollars but to no avail. The only thing that this communist cry baby left out is begging for the destruction of Israel but I am sure we will hear that soon. Then all would be so good fairness and gentile governance would prevail all around the world. I have heard this song and dance before from two bearded thugs that enslaved Cuba. I think I will now go puke.

              • In the know permalink
                October 28, 2009 1:30 pm


                The perception of this communist is accurate. From his perspective, the US supports right wing dictators. We are the root of all evil to him and his kind. Very similar to what Satan thinks of Almighty God. Why can’t you be more open minded and empathize with evil? This is the kind of stupidity that exists because our grandparents didn’t finish the job and crush evil when they had the chance. This sanctimonious, self righteous, liberal moral equivalency fallicious argument must not be tolerated anymore. Ask the republican party why its own members are revolting against it. They have accepted this BS from the left for so long, they now no longer hold the moral high ground. They are now trying to hold seats instead of holding principles. The strategy of gently pulling the conservatives into the middle has worked. The conservatives have lost their footing and now the left has begun pulling with all of their strength. In this tug of war contest, the only thing we have to lose is our republic. We are rapidly approaching crossing the center line into a leftist country. Thank you LT for providing such an “insightful” quote.

                • LanceThruster permalink
                  October 29, 2009 3:06 pm

                  Let you offer you a quote on your so-called “Almighty God”.

                  If there is a God, he is a malign thug – Mark Twain

                  My take on xianity is this –

                  God sent god to die for god so that god could forgive god’s creations according to god’s unbending rules. – LT

                  Too Rube Goldberg for me. Your god’s arms are too short to box with me.

                  • October 29, 2009 5:55 pm

                    MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL. Nah, don’t bother.

                  • Robert Laity permalink
                    October 30, 2009 12:10 am

                    “IN GOD WE TRUST”

                  • In the know permalink
                    October 30, 2009 11:57 am

                    Therefore explaining your smug arrogance and confidence in the infallabilty of man. If you admitted the failures of pluralism based on man’s superiority, you would have to address the issue of a higher power. You, on other comments, have contended that Jesus Christ and Christianity advocate pluralism. I agree, however, to morally equivocate a pluralistic society with a flawless, omnipotent ruler to one ruled by man is logically invalid. Every plural system of government has failed (multiple times) and left mass murder in it’s wake. Man, when given the chance, will always fail. It is our character flaw.

                  • LanceThruster permalink
                    October 30, 2009 12:26 pm

                    Re: “smug arrogance” – I was afraid I’d be perceived as “humbly arrogant” so I appreciate your input.

                    Human beings have evolved from the most aggressive and exploitative strains of competing species and individuals within our own species. It is most likely an obsolete survival strategy as our mutual well-being now relies more on cooperation than win-lose competition. Win-win will serve us all better.

                    Joseph Heller said “Catch-22 means people have the right to do to you anything you cannot prevent them from doing to you.”

                    Sad but true.

              • Sam Deakins permalink
                October 30, 2009 4:54 am

                Yeah, but, but, but, Cuber has all that free stuff like healthcare and all the kewl ’57 Chevy Belairs.

            • Brian permalink
              October 29, 2009 7:35 am

              Lance, Have you ever visited these places, conversed with any of the people from these countries, learned some of the history from their lips? I have. I can assure you that though the U.S. has done some dirty deeds in the past (as has every country) the individual countries and its people are 99% responsible for such deeds.

              But hey, you probably think El Ché is just a lovable fella that got the short end of the stick, and the Hugo is a mighty fine chap, and that Christina is the woman of your dreams.

        • jac mills permalink
          October 28, 2009 5:31 am

          You sound as though you would fit nicely into the present government’s administration.

          • Brian permalink
            October 29, 2009 8:06 am

            Perhaps you are misunderstanding what I said. This happens at times. I was simply stating that I have conversed with many people from these Latin American nations he listed. Many people that lived through these times, and after. Due to their firsthand knowledge, they have testified that it was their own people, their own governments doing said things. I do openly admit that the U.S. has done some shady things, this is fact. Just as all other countries have done just as shady, if not more. To deny this fact is ridiculous at best. We are a country of people. People are inherently flawed and make poor choices and decisions, and at time intentionally are cruel vindictive and horrendous.

            Finally, it’s obvious to see my stand with my last comments naming such individuals with a tone of sarcasm.

            • In the know permalink
              October 29, 2009 11:24 am

              Jac’s comment was there before you posted. He was responding to Mr. Thruster.

              • Brian permalink
                October 29, 2009 12:28 pm

                Oh goodness.. now I seem like a real stooge , pardon me it looked like it was directed at me being directly below mine, and well knowing how I can be too vague at times, and how I ‘ve mistaken others’ words before… I had to clarify.

            • LanceThruster permalink
              October 29, 2009 12:01 pm


              I don’t think my entry was a response to anything you wrote. Others have indicated that any criticism of the US or its policies somehow makes one a traitor or one that hates the US in toto. Your observations and acknowledgments are welcomed. I agree that those denying US abuses past or present *are* ridiculous.

              I only have a moment at present but much of what fostered Central American revolution was the abuses by corporatists such as United Fruit. (see: ). Their assessment seems rather fair.

              My point being that if leftist or socialist ideologies are the worst conditions for a country and a people, maybe business interests can stop fostering conditions that make these places ripe for unrest.

              • Brian permalink
                October 29, 2009 12:26 pm

                It is the leftist form of governments that is the cause for so much unrest in the world. On the extreme left you have dictators, then a little to the right you have a oligarchy (many ruled by a few), then a democracy ( mob rule), then a republic (rule by the law), then anarchy (each one is their own government). Chavez, though often denoted as a dictator is really a lead person with a group under him to rule the country. Often, when the republics ignore and trample their constitutions, and their citizens rights, it turns into an oligarchy. It is these forms that are tyrannical. Republics are in need of a smaller government, less intrusion into the citizens rights and in such provide freedom and prosperity.

                Every instance you related above was due to the oligarchical thought (socialism, communism, Marxism, Nazism, etc..) which in turn always destroys liberty. These systems only live to feed itself, they do nothing for liberty and the true honest wellbeing of their citizens. They make back door deals with unethical companies while undercutting their populaces rights and freedom. had their representatives been following their constitutions and the “republic way” in the government, these situations would not have arriver regardless of what intrusion into their affairs had been attempted.

                There in lay the need of true conservatism grounded in a republican (not as the political party) institutionalist way for our representatives to be. The problem with this article’s topic, Joe Klien (not the author) and those that follow this convoluted form of thinking, all ascribing to what is known as “progress” is that little by little the citizens that are under a republican form of government see their liberties chipped away, which only leads to total misery for all. You sir also follow this line of thinking. The larger the government the better. This is what you follow. When in fact, the larger the government, the worse. Even our founders knew this. More govt= more corruption= more waste=loss of liberties=misery.

                Learn it and then perhaps you will understand the world a bit better. Every person I have ever talked to regarding any form of dictatorship, communism etc, that has lived under those forms of gov, always say the same: “We saw it coming slowly, but did nothing”, and “We thought we were doing the right thing”. These same things are being said today in my great homeland, The United States of America. So Lance, are you an enabler of misery, or are you ignoring it coming, or perhaps you wish this to come? Which one?

                • LanceThruster permalink
                  October 29, 2009 2:14 pm

                  I’ll ignore your framing of the issue (that I’m either for A or I’m for B) and go on to talk about how corporate welfare never seems to be an issue for those denouncing any form of social welfare. Those arguing for a strong defense at least see the occasions where working for the *collective* (sounds like communism so it MUST be communism) good has merit.

                  To at least keep some of this OT, I’ll state that I find Mr. Klein’s statement valid and largely unremarkable.

                  Here’s some of what working together for the interests of the many vs those of the few without sacrificing basic rights entails –


                  Have they ever heard of real news, news that tackles real life problems? Have they ever heard of what it means for people struggling in their community to get a little attention, to get a little support by being on radio, being on TV? You know what you have to do in America today to get on those daytime talk shows? You gotta be a freak or a weirdo. You’ve got to be somebody who is semi-depraved and willing to be exploited. You got to be people who are down and out on their luck. You got to be people who are, in so many ways, utilized by those executives at the top of those media corporations to maximize their profits, while these people are goaded in between commercial breaks to rage against each other, spat against each other, swear against each other. And this in on our property. Our property, the public airwaves.

                  Indeed, you can’t even get a medical malpractice program on the Jenny Jones, Ricki Lake, Gary Springer, Sally Jesse Raphael, and other shows–not even something as gripping with human interest than people that have been done in by incompetent hospitals or negligent physicians. You can’t even get that on anymore. You can’t get it on. Male strippers who once committed incest and are on their way to the seminary, they’re on.

                  And Sally Jesse, who once had a mind of her own on a radio talk show, now rationalizes all of these shows. If I ever read the titles, even you wouldn’t believe how bad they’ve become and you and you are not innocent in observing the decay of our culture. And here is what she says: “Those are morality plays.” That’s how she justifies getting it on. They’re just reality plays, you know. She’s just watching them go at each other.

                  In the meantime, anything dealing with big business workplace issues or corporate crime, they don’t get on. And I’ll get to that in moment, but we’ve got to become far more demanding on how our public property is used. We’re the landlords of the public airwaves; the broadcasters are the tenants. Yet they pay us no rent, they decide who shows what twenty-four hours a day, and they laugh all the way to the bank. And, therefore, anything that really builds a solid, just society doesn’t qualify to get on our very own property.

                  Now any knowledge of history registers this observation: any society that allows one segment of it to have an excessive concentration of power and wealth, and that segment has a commercial, mercantile priority above every other value system in the society, is going to get into trouble. And we have, from time to time, as a society fought back against the big robber barons and the railroads and the financial and natural resource companies, etc.

                  Within the last twenty years we’ve had an extraordinary concentration of power and wealth in fewer and fewer global corporation hands. And you can see the consequences of that in so many ways. When you have that kind of concentration of power and wealth, you have a weakened democracy. You have a weakened public voice. You have a weakened public advocacy. And that registers. And look how it’s registered.

                  Look at the signs of decline in this country because our democracy has no been allowed to strengthen itself. Because we don’t spend enough time as public citizens. Because we have allowed global corporations, with no allegiance to our country, to scour for the dictatorships and the dirt cheap labor, to exploit and export the jobs there. We have allowed them to take over our government, to dominate our economy, to exploit small business, to straightjacket inventors, to shape our very culture–to replace our thought culture with commercial culture, that stresses violence and addiction–to decide what kind of research is done at our universities, to decide that the ordinary people pay the taxes (as someone once said, “Only the little people pay taxes.”), to decide that they, the corporations, weren’t going to pay any taxes.

                  And now look at the result. In the 1950’s corporate income tax represented between 25 and 30% of the federal outlays. Today it’s between 6 and 8%. Record corporate profits, record stock market prices, record executive compensations, and they are paying a shrinking amount. And many of these giant corporations pay 1% federal tax, 2% federal tax. How about this one? Everybody watching this assemblage, whoever paid a dollar to Uncle Sam between the years 1981 and 1983 paid more taxes than the giant General Electric Company, which produced $6.5 billion in profits, paid no taxes, because of a safe harbor loophole provision got a $150 million refund–and that was supposed to get General Electric to invest in new productive capital equipment–instead they bought RCA, NBC, and now maybe you’ll wonder why NBC isn’t covering the close down of four nuclear plants Connecticut, three of which are closed down due to safety defects this summer. Well, General Electric is in the nuclear business. What do you expect?


                  For all those super-rich Pollyannas who think America is #1, look what they and their corporate cohorts have done to America to make it far less than #1: In 1980 the U.S. was first with wages in the world; it’s now 11th and sinking. In 1980 the U.S. was the greatest creditor in the world; it’s now the biggest debtor in the world. Today we’re 17th in the world in infant mortality. We have 23% child poverty–think about that–almost one out of every four children in America live in dire poverty, with all that means in terms of stunted human potential, health hazards, safety hazards, brutalization and surroundings you wouldn’t want to have to describe with any equanimity.

                  You know what the child poverty rate is in the Netherlands and Sweden? Three percent in Netherlands; 2 percent Sweden. We’re the only country industrialized in the world that doesn’t have universal health insurance. Over 40 million Americans–many of them children–have no health insurance, 20 million are underinsured, and the rest wonder when they’re going to fall through the cracks–when they change jobs, pre-existing conditions, co-payments, deductibles, exclusions,cancellations–hey, this is the Land of the Free. Home of Brave. What gives?

                  The GNP is up; 80% of the American people have suffered a decline in income and wealth adjusted for inflation in the last twenty years. One percent of the richest people have taken 2/3 of the financial wealth increase in the 1980’s. The wealth of 90% of the American people barely is equal to the wealth of the top 2%–even the 1%, depending on which figures you rely. Imagine. That kind of concentration of wealth is greater than any country in Western Europe, greater than in Japan. We now have the greatest disparity in wealth between the rich and rest of the American people of any country in the western industrialized world. And we used to have the least inequality, because Europe was so class-stratified with their barons, etc.

                  Imagine the decline. The hunger in this country–while the taxpayers are forced to pay the Cargills and the Continental Grains to store all that food that’s rotting in the warehouses. And just imagine. Corporations are contributing 50% less to private pensions of workers who are lucky enough to have private pensions.

                  And it keeps getting worse. Homelessness is up. You know, some of you who went abroad years ago came back to the U.S. and said, “Am I glad I’m back in the U.S.A.” Someone would say, “Why?” and you’d say, “You know, people there are afraid to drink the water. They gotta have bottled water. And they’ve got poor there that buy lottery tickets–can you imagine? They hardly have enough money and they’re out there hoping for the big bang. And do you know those countries think imported products are higher quality than products made in their own country.” And on, and on, and on.

                  Let’s look at this figure, if you will. We have been exposed to so-called free trade dogma for over twenty years now. They keep saying, “It’ll work out all well for America. It’ll work okay, American workers.” What do we have to twenty years? Record trade deficits. Which means record exporting of jobs. Now, what’s the latest nostrum by the free trade dogmatists? GATT and NAFTA, designed to envelope our democratic processes underneath an autocratic governance system with headquarters in Geneva with secret tribunals, closed harmonization committees, equivalence procedures and all the mumbo jumbo that spell three things: one, that under GATT the nations that treat their people more humanely are the ones who get into trouble.

                  The countries who treat their people inhumanely are the ones that don’t get into trouble. Because if we have strong consumer workplace and environmental standards, other countries can say, “Those are really indirect trade barriers. They’re keeping out pesticide-laden foods from Brazil, or unsafe automobiles from the European community. And they take us to Geneva. And if we lose we have to repeal these safety and health laws or pay tribute economic fines to these countries before secret tribunals that are closed to the public and have no independent appeal.

                  Can you imagine? Suppressing our democratic processes by these kinds of autocratic systems of government. And harmonization, you know what that is? That means we’ll never be first in health and safety standards. Because we have to meet behind closed doors with other signatory nations and figure out how many dolphins are going to die, how much reformulated gasoline is going to be allowed, what kinds of safety devices on our cars are going to be permitted–lowest common denominator harmonization. Meat and poultry inspection harmonization meetings are going on now under GATT.

                  This is a subversion of the progress that we’ve made and a chilling of future progress. Those of you who want to have stronger cancer prevention standards applied to industry, next time you propose them you may well get a letter from the State Department saying, “Well, we respect your indulgence here but don’t waste your time. This proposal is GATT illegal.”

                  Do you know that we banned child labor in this country but if we pass a law in Congress that bans the importation of products manufactured by brutalized child labor in other countries that we will be defeated before the tribunal of the World Trade Organization, and we’ll have to repeal that law or pay tribute economic fines perpetually to the countries such as India or Bangladesh or others who are allowing this kind of tens of millions of children to be so horribly exploited? We’re losing our sovereignty.

                  Now, notice what happens when the GNP goes up and the aggregate and the yardstick show growth that it’s decline for more and more of the American people. What happens is people start fighting people. The big guys at the top begin dividing and ruling, and the middle class is told, “Hey, it’s those poor people on welfare. Why, they’re eating your taxes alive.” Have you ever heard of these big guys at the top say, “Hey, it’s those rich guys on welfare. They’re really eating you out of house and home.”

                  You know it’s amazing. One sign of propaganda is that it’s devoid of fact because it’s full of lies. And here’s the propaganda: you ask the average citizen in this country what percent of federal outlays goes to means tested poverty entitlement programs–you know, that’s food stamps, AFDC, child support, child nutrition, school lunches. I doubt whether many of them would say 3.4%, of entire federal outlays.

                  Now when you ask them how much do you think goes for corporate welfare, well suddenly there’s a lack of statistics. But even the Wall Street Journal estimated it at $140 billion a year. And if you take corporate welfare in terms of subsidies, bailouts, giveaways, inflated government contracts, tax loopholes of the grossest sort, and forgiveness of corporate debt, you’re up to over $200 billion a year–easily. And yet, when the citizen groups go up to Congress and say, “Please, can we have $50 million more dollars a year for safe drinking water systems in America?” it’s “Sorry. No money.” “Can we have $300 million for equal justice under law, called Legal Services of For the Poor?” “Oh no. We can’t afford it.” “Can we have $300 million for public broadcasting, for wholesome programming for children instead of the violence they see on TV?” They say, “Oh no no no no. Gotta balance the budget.”

                  You know this is the same Congress that funded billions of dollars to the biggest mass transit program–back a few years in our country. You know what it was? The MX missile. This is the same Congress that pumps billions of dollars into antiquated or redundant or unnecessary mass weapons systems. And you just imagine the grotesque allocation of the federal budget. If the family allocated its budget the way the federal government under corporate power allocates its budget, the family would be committed.

                  What if an average family spent 20% of its budget against a nonexistent enemy? Another 15% of its budget to make the people living in the mansions on the hill richer, and then wrung its hands when it came down to feeding the children, to providing them with health care, providing them with a decent education, clothing and housing. Our federal budget has enormous money– that is being misused, and wasted, and escalated up from the middle class to the rich and the corporate–which can be used to produce millions of jobs in public works, and building, rebuilding, repairing America.

                  • Brian permalink
                    October 29, 2009 6:18 pm

                    Lance, defend your position with the question I asked. Are you for one side.. or the other. In the context I presented to you, I am fully for the Central option. The republican option. You veer off into deep space far beyond any world Spock had ever dreamed of with another wall text about something not even remotely relating to the conversation.

                    My context, and wall of text does relate as in showing how different ideologies relate in thinking and thus actions. Mine for republican governments, while all you can accomplish is spout off copy and pasted texts without any actual real thought to even defend your statements or position. I’m positive you can come up with an original thought of your own instead of just doing quick drive by commenting with block texts and little jabs here and there to carry on somewhat of a logical and normal dialogue.

                    You say right wingers are horrid and tyrannical, when in fact right wing is nothing more than chaos with no form of government aside from your personal is in place. You are obviously against conservative foundations based on a republican form of government which has historically proven to be the best form as in liberties and prosperity for all its citizens. This would leave logic to say that you are for the opposing view of government.. either the left side or far right. neither is conducive for a populace to enjoy liberty and prosperity.

                    I say Defend with your own thoughts, reasons, words you stance…. if you can.

                  • Jack Hampton permalink
                    October 30, 2009 4:17 am

                    Once again LT displays the flawed and half truth of the failed communist ideology the dream that never comes to fruition but all communist believe that is there if only they can control all the people and limit there aspirations and freedom. The bread lines shortages of everything and the gulags and the fifty million deaths and the misery that was the old Soviet Union does not give these losers pause in the least. Cuba where people live in abject poverty and despair and at one time had the highest per capita income of any of the central American and Caribbean nations is now collective economic hell except for the Castro brothers and there anointed cadre. Now Hugo Chavez is bringing the same failure and madness to Venezuela my niece and her husband one an internist the other a dentist are doing there yearly mission to that country for the third year. They relate to me on each mission you can see the shortages increase people unable to buy milk the loss of personal freedoms and economic freedom government seizing control of more and more the ever tightening fist of another communist dictator. People are now beginning to realize they sold there lives to the old communist collective lie that people like Lance Thruster cling to and it will cost them dearly to rid them selves of another tyrant.
                    He then bemoans the fact that there is no time for stories regarding corporate malfeasance, Has Lance ever heard of Enron or Bernie Madoff? At least Fox is doing stories on GE and there questionable practices. He is not talking here about dozens of Wall Street brokers and other business types that have been and are being sent to the federal pen even Martha Stuart. Should there be more yes and there will be the looseness of some market practices are beginning to contract. I will agree to some extent about global corporations that have no allegiance to this nation and some trade treaties that need to be revisited.
                    Then he throws out the old infant mortality lie which places us in 17th position in the world which is simply a reporting issue and we are there because we report all infant deaths and his socialistic paradise like Sweden do not. If these nations reported all of them as we do we would still be number one and are number one in the world. He also throws out the old half truth about forty million Americans being with out health care another lie as well there are uninsured Americans and everyone that reads this blog knows the facts behind that fraud many of the people he refers to choose to have no health insurance or lose there coverage temporarily then regain it. We do need healthcare reform but not the communal nationalized model he is schilling for we have the best healthcare in the world and anyone can get medical care if they seek out help we have laws that forbid hospitals from turning anyone away. I also challenge Lance to show the starving masses in this country
                    He is correct about the national debt but he wants to spend more on universal health care and throw us further into debt. There are people that read this blog that are a lot more articulate and smarter than I am. I am basically just and old soldier and retired from a civilian occupation in law enforcement but even I who does not by any means see a commie behind every tree can spot Lance who is a bitter either self trained or professionally trained communist. He has bought into the social justice dogma and it can only exist in his socialistic utopia that has never existed. This country that he hates is flawed with out doubt but it still for the time being represents far more good and has done more good than any nation on earth in its short history. America’s best days still lie a head if we can restore it to constitutional governance and pry it loose from professional politicians and get back on the path the founders intended. As one of the Howler monkeys I will sit back and listen for the stuck communist pig.

                  • LanceThruster permalink
                    October 30, 2009 10:16 am

                    to Brian below –

                    You are obviously against conservative foundations based on a republican form of government

                    I think of myself as adopting the best and most effective elements of any system. I do not have a problem with a Republic, though we are in need of some fine tuning. Corporations are deemed “persons” and money is considered “free speech.” It is clearly corrupting representative government. Tea baggers moan about social programs of almost any sort but remained largely silent as Shrub spent like a drunken sailor (no offense intended to drunken sailors). “Tax and spend” is preferable to the GOP “borrow and spend”.

                    The cut and past was relevant to many of the positions here that paint a black and white picture of good government/good business practices and those that supposedly lead to ruin (like Greenspan’s blind trust of market forces?). Yes, any idea carried to its extreme is most likely not a good thing. The middle ground often allows for incorporating what works regardless of the political view that originated it.

                    A prison inmate gets better healthcare than our uninsured or underinsured citizens. In fact, career criminals sometimes use their next incarceration to get all their health needs taken care of. For profit insurers also ration medical care but that is largely igmored. There’s a book out called, “Best Care Anywhere: Why VA Health Care is Better Than Yours” by Phillip Longman that highlights the health benefits and savings from such a program.

                    Sorry you think I’m all over the map but the Newsreal howler monkeys throw out a lot of sh!t to try to see what will stick. Say what you will about Cuban healthcare, they helped our 9/11 first responders when our system wouldn’t. The woman who cried when she got her inhalers made me cry too. They put their lives and health on the line but were virtually abandoned (even by the lies that the air was safe).

                    Defend that and we’ll continue the conversation. Otherwise, you’re just a true believer removed from the real world though your ideology and actions have real world consequences.

    • October 27, 2009 3:50 pm

      L.T., your comment makes no sense. Are you implying that FOX is aiding and abetting the enemy?

      • Robert Laity permalink
        October 28, 2009 10:47 pm

        Read my comment on Fox “aiding and abetting” an “enemy”:

    • October 27, 2009 10:19 pm

      I was an element on the internet who believed that Bush’s actions as a commander in chief were off limits. Everything else is fair game.

      The left twisted that to include every criticism, which was simply a lie that continues to this very day.

      So I have a very simple observation made by a famous Marxist, and then a suggestion:

      You won.

      You can stop campaigning now and start governing.

      “Bush did it!” doesn’t fly any more. It’s just a dishonest retort to legitimate questions raised about an inexperienced and incompetent idealogue who happens to be president.

      • LanceThruster permalink
        October 28, 2009 7:02 pm

        It’s just a dishonest retort to legitimate questions raised about an inexperienced and incompetent idealogue who happen[ed] to be president.

        That’s a perfectly apt description of Shrub up to and including his last day in office.

    • Robert Laity permalink
      October 28, 2009 10:31 pm

      Dissent is ALWAYS “appropriate. We are americans!

  6. Jack Hampton permalink
    October 27, 2009 3:03 pm

    You can accuse anyone of anything. But proving it is what counts. Can Joe Klein prove his parents were married?

    • Robert Laity permalink
      October 31, 2009 9:14 pm

      Joe Klein isn’t POTUS!

  7. AuntWie permalink
    October 27, 2009 4:09 pm


    Guilty of “stupidition” rotfl. seriously. cramps in my side now.

    I don’t think that the lefty Joe Klein really worries about backing up his claim with facts. When you know that only your opinions are valid, facts are irrelevant.

    Sedition. n. Any act or statement which undermines, criticizes, disparages, or hurts the feelings of The One, or of his worshipers.

    • In the know permalink
      October 28, 2009 9:30 am

      “Sedition. n. Any act or statement which undermines, criticizes, disparages, or hurts the feelings of The One, or of his worshipers.”

      LOL. That’s soon to be on Wikipedia!

  8. Misty Fowler permalink
    October 27, 2009 8:57 pm

    It is an inconvenient fact that nearly every dictator there has ever been have been lefties. They come to power promising social justice, equality and utopia. Yes, even Hitler did this. Unfortunately, the only way to accomplish utopia is to kill off the dissidents.

  9. October 28, 2009 3:58 am

    What is astonishing is how much credence is given to the moron JK by political analysts and leftist magazines such as ‘Time’! It is a sad life on the left.

  10. October 28, 2009 8:49 am

    I am British. I subscribed to Time Magazine for 12 months until recently when I found it impossible to stomach anymore of the asinine infantlism and stupidity of this berk. So I have cancelled. Thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding about Joe Klein and Joseph.

    • LanceThruster permalink
      October 28, 2009 11:05 am

      The conservative views of Henry Robinson Luce and Clare Boothe Luce are well established. Time reflects that as much as anything.

      • In the know permalink
        October 28, 2009 1:37 pm

        Lance says Time reflects conservative views. Lance, if this is true in your world; I question from what perspective you view it.

        • LanceThruster permalink
          October 28, 2009 7:05 pm

          Time is more often than not behind the curve on progressive issues and most always gets on the bandwagon late. It’s like pretending Alan Dershowitz has ethics just because he eventually conceded the Armenian genocide.

          • In the know permalink
            October 29, 2009 6:12 am

            That point is subjective. As I pondered previously, from what perspective do you view it? If Pravda before 1987 appeals to your sentiments then Time is most certainly conservative. Of course that would mean you suscribe to the notion that the MSM in the US is center right to right. Which is laughable at best. And, what would a supporter of a corrupt government know of ethics?

      • AuntWie permalink
        October 29, 2009 10:17 am

        It’s true that both of the Luce’s were conservative. Neither one, however, has a really profound influence on current publication standards. You may have noticed that they are both quite dead.
        As far as I’m concerned, so is Time Magazine.
        It’s too bad. Time used to be a real powerhouse.

  11. October 28, 2009 12:28 pm

    Mr. Klein’s ideology defines his mentality and its out in left field visceral reaction. It is the way of the leftist mind set . . . poor things.

    The Turban Torpedo

    Joe. You reported and we decided your take is just more leftist anti America drivel.

  12. Robert Laity permalink
    October 28, 2009 10:23 pm

    Obama’s birth certificate issue is at a slow boil. He is going to court in January,2010. i have been sending Fox news updates daily on this “CertifiGate” issue. Lou Dobbs mentions it more than Fox ever did. Fox is avoiding this subject. Recently,O’Reilly spent no more than a couple of minutes on a discussion of it. Is the Fox/WH “war” a facade? Usurpation of the White House oval office has occurred:

    • In the know permalink
      October 29, 2009 6:21 am

      ………off topic, crackpot theory that makes our struggle difficult. Honestly, if he’s not a citizen and is not eligible, what are you going to do about it? Given every other unconstitutional move the government has made and continues to make, do you think the 50% of barely educated idiots in this country are going to have an epiphany? Oh, he’s not legal….oh my gosh, I should turn off the reality TV and open an unrevised history book. Maybe I should investigate who funded that BS TV ad for healthcare I just watched before blindly accepting what they said as fact. Seriously? How does this help us?

      • Robert Laity permalink
        October 29, 2009 11:48 pm

        “We have a republic,if we can keep it”-Benjamin Franklin.
        Obama IS a fraud,a bogus POTUS. What am I going to do about it,I am doing. We are suing the bastard.

        • In the know permalink
          October 30, 2009 1:44 pm

          You are suing Lenin in a communist court. He is using your case to marginalize the conservatives. The details of his past are sketchy, yes. You cannot win this fight. Help us win the war, not a battle.

          • AuntWie permalink
            October 30, 2009 3:12 pm

            I agree. Even IF you could prove that he was born in Kenya, or on Mars, the courts would declare that since he was born to an American citizen mother, he is, in fact, a “natural born citizen.” This is not a winnable battle.
            Please, lets all use all of our energy and intelligence and will to limit the destruction these socialists can do in the time remaining before we can throw them all out.

            • Jack Hampton permalink
              October 31, 2009 3:29 am

              First I believe Obama was born in Hawaii I simply believe they are hiding something that they perceive embarassing but if it was discovered that he was indeed not born in Hawaii and did not meet the natural born citizen requirement and it were found to be so by the SCOTUS it would be a nightmare a constitutional crisis. You would have senior military officers refusing his orders and they would be correct to do so. Then the worst possible thing is we would get Joe Biden as PORKUS. I pray for Obamas’s saftey every day.

              • AuntWie permalink
                October 31, 2009 9:35 am

                With Jack, I think they are hiding embarrassing things from Hawaii on. What’s in all his college papers? Why did the MSM never care?
                But, on the whole, I absolutely agree with you. I hoped, for awhile, that he’d do something impeachable. But have you heard Biden speak? I don’t think that slick, polished rhetoric is a prerequisite for office. I do believe that the ability to think is an absolute minimum requirement. POTUS clearly does not have a first class mind. VPOTUS is something short even of that.
                I think we need to concentrate on surrounding them with obstacles to limit the types and amount of damage they can do until we can vote them out.
                What do you good folks think?

                • mamapajamas permalink
                  October 31, 2009 2:09 pm

                  I agree. I fervently PRAY for Obama’s good health upon viewing Biden.

                  We have to catch them out in other ways. Such as removing Congress from their control in 2010.

          • Robert Laity permalink
            October 31, 2009 2:30 am

            In the Know, “We the People” WILL “Win this fight”. That is how sure I am. “We the people” WILL WIN!

            • Robert Laity permalink
              October 31, 2009 9:54 pm

              MUST win!

              • Jack Hampton permalink
                November 1, 2009 6:41 am

                Your last post has not made it up yet but to answer Biden is an idiot and a danger to himself muchless the country. You risk marginalizing a serious situation and you are starting to sound like a truther.

                • Robert Laity permalink
                  November 5, 2009 12:18 am

                  I am talking about Obama and NOT 9-11!

                  9-11 Conspiracy theorists are called “Truthers”. You know very well that I am not talking about that but about Obama’s BC!

  13. Robert Laity permalink
    November 2, 2009 6:20 am

    Jack “Can’t handle the truth”.

  14. Jack Hampton permalink
    November 2, 2009 11:29 am

    Spent my life dealing with and finding truth and facts doubt you have. I do not believe in fairt tales by amatures.

    • Robert Laity permalink
      November 3, 2009 4:24 am

      The truth will set you free. I would hope you “spent” your “life dealing with….truth…facts”. That is what you should do. Ignoring facts does no good. I base my writings on a compendium of facts gathered by many professionals.I consider myself one.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        November 3, 2009 5:43 am

        Professional at what? Fostering absurd conspiracies that are impossible? Get a life.

        • Robert Laity permalink
          November 3, 2009 12:22 pm

          There is a conspiracy allright:

          The way you are fighting against learning these facts,I ask,are YOU in on it?

          • Jack Hampton permalink
            November 3, 2009 12:59 pm

            Of course I am in on it we all are except you I lit the fire cracker. Get help

            • Robert Laity permalink
              November 5, 2009 12:21 am

              Apples and Oranges. I was asking if you were admitting being “in on” the CertifiGate conspiracy!

              • Jack Hampton permalink
                November 5, 2009 5:52 am

                Yes I forged his Birth Certificate so prosecute me Mr. Professional. You stated earlier you were of the hippie generation did you smoke a lot of Gungi weed laced with PCP or do a lot 0f LSD? You are a joke to everyone but yourself.

                • Robert Laity permalink
                  November 5, 2009 11:55 pm

                  His COLB was “forged”. I said I was from the same generation,the 60s. I do not fit into your obtuse generalizations about joining in with the democrats. I am conservative.I do no drugs. You should stop. You might think more clearly!

                  • Jack Hampton permalink
                    November 6, 2009 3:37 am

                    My thinking is very clear. Will you keep us posted an let us know the date that Obama will be appearing in court or when you get your indictment from a federal grand jury? Be sure and keep us posted. We are all happy and comforted knowing that you are on the case. I want to be just like you when I grow up.

  15. Robert Laity permalink
    November 7, 2009 1:28 am


  16. Jack Hampton permalink
    November 7, 2009 5:54 am

    I see you are just hiding your sanity as some form of clever ruse much like Inspector Cluseau.

    • Robert Laity permalink
      November 7, 2009 8:47 pm

      Apparently,you have decided to exhibit delusional behavior overtly. Your “head in the sand” denials that the US is capable of being corrupt and criminal enough to tolerate treason from it’s bogus POTUS and Speaker of the House.

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        November 8, 2009 6:58 am

        Why don’t you just take up Bingo at least y0u might win a nice toaster?

        • Robert Laity permalink
          November 9, 2009 4:01 am

          I have a toaster. Obama’s toasted:

  17. John Davidson permalink
    November 8, 2009 7:25 am

    It looks like some worms have infested this site.

    • Robert Laity permalink
      November 9, 2009 4:03 am

      Go Fishing!

      • Jack Hampton permalink
        November 9, 2009 4:12 am

        Went fishing caught a sucker you. lololo.

        • Robert Laity permalink
          November 9, 2009 11:26 pm

          The only “sucker” that got “caught” are those who fell for Obama’s machiavellianistic prevarications.

  18. Robert Laity permalink
    November 9, 2009 11:34 pm

    Rev. Manning on the topic of Fox news/White House fabricated “war”:


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